Why don't many view CT as part of New England? (Boston: metro area, area)

[ben young]

Originally Posted by FCMA

Too many Yankees fans west of the Connecticut River disqualifies most of CT as New England. The rest of the state is welcome to join the surly nihilist New Englander party.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

“Much worse” is an exaggeration.

While it may be true that VT top bracket is slightly higher than CT, the lack of car tax in VT more than makes up for that (for your average person at that bracket). For an individual making 250k, the difference is less than $2,000 a year. I’d take that over [far higher] taxes on everything else.

Every study shows CT to be far more tax unfriendly than VT. According to the Tax Foundation, Connecticut ranks #2 for most tax burdened state. Vermont ranks #20.

There’s a reason that, while driving around southern CT, you see so many VT plates on luxury SUVs - it’s cheaper to establish residency at their mountain home in VT than it is to establish residency in CT. Full stop.

Nope. Vermont doesn't have a residency requirement for car registration. Anybody with any kind of Vermont address can register their car there. Those are not Vermont residents.

If you make $250K in Vermont, you're in the 8.8% bracket. For $250K and single, the difference is more like $2500/year.

In Connecticut, you can pick a town with a lower property tax rate and you're only paying tax on 70% of the value. In Vermont, there is a state school property tax. It's means tested but if you're anything close to approaching upper middle class, you pay all of it. Nobody escapes. For example, I could retire to Stonington where housing prices are reasonable and have a lower property tax rate than anywhere in Vermont. The mill rate is $22.98. 70% of that is $16.00.

Here's Vermont #3 and Connecticut #6 https://wallethub.com/edu/states-wit...-burden/20494/

Vermont is so steeply progressive with their taxation that you get slaughtered if you make real money. The state school property tax is means tested. The state income tax is steeply graduated. Nobody making mid-6 figures claims Vermont residency if they have any other option. Vermont has a low tax burden if you make squat for income. It's off the charts if you make good money and own a nice house.

[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Nope. Vermont doesn't have a residency requirement for car registration. Anybody with any kind of Vermont address can register their car there. Those are not Vermont residents.

If you make $250K in Vermont, you're in the 8.8% bracket. For $250K and single, the difference is more like $2500/year.

In Connecticut, you can pick a town with a lower property tax rate and you're only paying tax on 70% of the value. In Vermont, there is a state school property tax. It's means tested but if you're anything close to approaching upper middle class, you pay all of it. Nobody escapes. For example, I could retire to Stonington where housing prices are reasonable and have a lower property tax rate than anywhere in Vermont. The mill rate is $22.98. 70% of that is $16.00.

Here's Vermont #3 and Connecticut #6 https://wallethub.com/edu/states-wit...-burden/20494/

Vermont is so steeply progressive with their taxation that you get slaughtered if you make real money. The state school property tax is means tested. The state income tax is steeply graduated. Nobody making mid-6 figures claims Vermont residency if they have any other option. Vermont has a low tax burden if you make squat for income. It's off the charts if you make good money and own a nice house.

Re: residency - the CT “residents” escaping vehicle property tax have established themselves as VT residents. It’s a misdemeanor tax evasion charge if they’re registering a vehicle with a CT ID - and you better believe smaller, wealthy suburbs have the means to look into this. They can and do.

By “real money”, you mean > 250k, which is approximatly 0.35% of VT’s total working population. Tiny number of actual people affected in that bracket.

The average income in VT is $53k, which isn’t squat, and will pay $1,600 to the state. A CT resident making the same will pay almost $1k more. Once you hit the low six figures, a CT resident will still pay hundreds more. Even at 2500 difference (generous) once you hit that bracket, a vehicle tax on 2 new vehicles in CT - which a family making 250k+ likely drives - will more than make up for that, even at 70% of value. And with property tax being approximately 15% less in VT, it more than makes up for the difference.

That’s aside from gas tax (CT’s is 10 cents more per gallon than VT), estate tax (CT has a threshold that’s $1.5m less than VT), etc. CT residents should also get excited for a significant tax on car tires, raised income taxes and raised property taxes due to the funding being cut from the affluent suburbs.

Point is, the average (and even well above average) earner in VT will pay far less income tax than the equivalent in CT. Only a tiny fraction of the population will pay more, but the difference is quickly eaten up by other taxes that are non-existent in VT.

[SeaDoo342]

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

Re: residency - the CT “residents” escaping vehicle property tax have established themselves as VT residents. It’s a misdemeanor tax evasion charge if they’re registering a vehicle with a CT ID - and you better believe smaller, wealthy suburbs have the means to look into this. They can and do.

By “real money”, you mean > 250k, which is approximatly 0.35% of VT’s total working population. Tiny number of actual people affected in that bracket.

The average income in VT is $53k, which isn’t squat, and will pay $1,600 to the state. A CT resident making the same will pay almost $1k more. Once you hit the low six figures, a CT resident will still pay hundreds more. Even at 2500 difference (generous) once you hit that bracket, a vehicle tax on 2 new vehicles in CT - which a family making 250k+ likely drives - will more than make up for that, even at 70% of value. And with property tax being approximately 15% less in VT, it more than makes up for the difference.

That’s aside from gas tax (CT’s is 10 cents more per gallon than VT), estate tax (CT has a threshold that’s $1.5m less than VT), etc. CT residents should also get excited for a significant tax on car tires, raised income taxes and raised property taxes due to the funding being cut from the affluent suburbs.

Point is, the average (and even well above average) earner in VT will pay far less income tax than the equivalent in CT. Only a tiny fraction of the population will pay more, but the difference is quickly eaten up by other taxes that are non-existent in VT.

Yes exactly... for way less than 1%, VT might have a higher income tax... but for 99.5% of filers, CT income tax is higher...

[Pincho-toot]

Originally Posted by AtkinsonDan

Historical definition does not equate to socio-cultural identification for some of us.

And Boston ain't the end all be all of New England. In that case, Vermont isn't New England and only a fool would insist on that. That would be like saying Iowa is not the Midwest.

[Pincho-toot]

Originally Posted by massnative71

True and parts of (upstate) NY have New England influences. Of course all of the 6 NE states are all officially part of NE. But it all depends on if you distinguish cultural traits from geographical ones ie. stereotypes and what comes to mind when most people think "New England".

An analogy would be; Miami, FL is certainly part of the South as Florida is a southern state, but most people wouldn't call Miami "Southern". Or when people describe "Southern" things they usually aren't referring to South Beach.

Even then, Miami has more southern traits then are given credit for (especially in urban hip hop culture, it alikens itself to Atlanta, NOLA and Houston in many ways. "Dirty South.") I grew up in Miami and yea its different from most of the South but trust me, living in the far north, people are quick to pick up that I'm not from here by the way I talk and phrases I say

But on that note, Connecticut is more "New England" than South Florida is "The South" culturally. I don't think Connecticut has a bunch of southern retirees or Cubans who have been there since the 90s and still only speak Spanish.

[Jthyme1000]

I grew up in Mass. Up until a few months ago, I thought of Connecticut definitely as a NE state, but it's proximity to NYC for some reason set it apart from the rest- it I suppose because you hear of CT people commuting to NYC instead of Boston.

I just moved back to NE (RI) after 11 years away- now I see CT in a totally different light. I was at an event in Providence where there were a lot of people from CT- each one of them so warm and friendly- we enjoyed them so much, we connected with a few on FB and stayed in touch- have yet to make it to one of their get-togethers (being new to winter and lacking things like 'snow tires'), but hope to soon- they truly were some of the most wonderful people we met up here!

But yes, these largely were more 'eastern CT' folks.

[ben young]

East of Hartford, New England .. West of Hartford, New York
Red Sox Yankees
Giants
Pats. Jets
Rotaries Left lane exits

[tovarisch]

Whether it "feels" like NE or not, CT is in fact an NE state, and there is no doubt about that.

[in_newengland]

Originally Posted by ben young

East of Hartford, New England .. West of Hartford, New York
Red Sox Yankees
Giants
Pats. Jets
Rotaries Left lane exits

I'm from MA and lived there all my life except for college in CT. Just moved to back to CT and I didn't have to move out of New England to do it. Even my CD name is still in_newengland. I'm just west of the river and it's New Englandy here. There are white churches, town greens, olde homes. If I go further west, I get hills and really old fashioned New England. I do admit there is a funny feeling here though. And some of the people are in your face types, like NYers. There's a NYC vibe that must come from that corner down by NYC, Fairfield County.

It's not that much different from WMass, where I come from. It's not that much different from Vermont either. It IS different from Boston, but Boston is not the epitome of New England. The Boston area is more like the exception than the representation.