MBTA to raise fares 6.3% (Boston, Cambridge: middle-class, insurance, layoffs)

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Sorry, that's not what you said. No reason to fib about what you said, it's right there in black and white:




I never said nor implied any such thing. You're getting closer to Trump every day with the fibbing. You really should stop making things up, if you're capable of it. We know Trump isn't capable of telling the truth, hopefully you are, sometimes.


Yes, lots of people choose to have children.
What does that have to do with anything?
You want government to build cheap new apartments for single mothers?
Or do you want private developers to rent their properties at below market rates in the neighborhoods you like to single mothers?

Ranting about Trump (not sure your obsession there, or why you insert him into the discussion) does not make you correct. All you are doing is demonstrating how far removed from reality you really are.


If by "choice" you mean not illegally cramming your whole family into a 1 BR APT, or living in an inappropriate roommate situation, and sending your kids to subpar schools (or just leaving them on the side of the road to fend for themselves); then yes I SUPPOSE that is their choice. Most don't look at it that way, however. In YOUR reality the entire 5 million people of the Boston MSA might have the option of residing in a small 100 sq. mile area inside 128, may be POSSIBLE (I mean Hong Kong manages it). You need to understand that not everybody is like YOU.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by massnative71

Ranting about Trump (not sure your obsession there, or why you insert him into the discussion) does not make you correct. All you are doing is demonstrating how far removed from reality you really are. .

The relevance is right wingers inability to tell the truth and the chronically being factually incorrect and straight up compulsive lying. You straight up lied about what I said, once again.

Originally Posted by massnative71

If by "choice" you mean not illegally cramming your whole family into a 1 BR APT, or living in an inappropriate roommate situation, and sending your kids to subpar schools (or just leaving them on the side of the road to fend for themselves); then yes I SUPPOSE that is their choice. Most don't look at it that way, however. In YOUR reality the entire 5 million people of the Boston MSA might have the option of residing in a small 100 sq. mile area inside 128, may be POSSIBLE (I mean Hong Kong manages it). You need to understand that not everybody is like YOU.

Inappropriate roommate situation? What is that?


Who is illegally cramming people in apartments? Your friends? These are middle class parents, the topic you were discussing?

Subpar schools? Like the friends who send kids to Boston and Cambridge schools and they come out just fine because they have good parents and direction? Those "subpar" schools which are subpar for Massachusetts (which is #1 in the Nation for public schools) but overall just fine comparatively?


5 million people in 100 square miles is very doable. In 50 square miles it is doable in the right circumstances. Some people want more space (a choice) so they choose to live further out (a choice).

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Is there anyone that thinks that using the commuter rail isn't a choice?

To some the alternative is going homeless, hungry, or (fill-in-the-blank). Again maybe a "choice" from your perspective, but not for the majority I can tell that with certainty. IDK maybe you had life handed to you on a silver platter, it's not that way for most of us.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by timberline742

The relevance is right wingers inability to tell the truth and the chronically being factually incorrect and straight up compulsive lying. You straight up lied about what I said, once again.

No, no, and no. Great job deflecting though.

Originally Posted by timberline742

Inappropriate roommate situation? What is that?

Really???

Originally Posted by timberline742

Who is illegally cramming people in apartments? Your friends?

To do what you claim is an "option" (at a rate affordable for most), would likely be outside local occupancy ordinances as well as violate any lease (assuming it's a legit rental). You must know this stuff, right?

Originally Posted by timberline742

Subpar schools? Like the friends who send kids to Boston and Cambridge schools and they come out just fine because they have good parents and direction? Those "subpar" schools which are subpar for Massachusetts (which is #1 in the Nation for public schools) but overall just fine comparatively?

Says the man who grew up in Belmont.

[lrfox]

Without getting into the thick of some of the debate, I'm a big transit advocate and I still think the pricing for the Commuter Rail network is not OK/fair for what it is. CR is restrictive with frequencies (not enough at peak times, not any late) and access (a dearth of parking near stations). If you compare fares/distances, the commuter rail in Boston is on par with Metro North Railroad (i.e. a monthly pass for someone in Peekskill is very close to what a monthly pass costs for someone in Lakeville). Would anyone argue that the level of service between the two are the same? I mean Metro North runs trains all night and has them every 20 minutes to 1/2 hour at peak times. How does the MBTA compare? SEPTA, which has a more comparable regional rail network charges a MAX of $204 for their monthly pass. That's $159 less per month than an MBTA zone 8 commuter rail pass.

Before we charge people comparable fares to NYC's vastly superior system, the commuter rail needs to improve. Boston also needs to step up its game on collecting fares (at all levels of service) which will put a big dent in costs. Finally, the state needs to work on different ways to gain additional funding for the system rather than increasing fares. Some of those ways have been shared in this thread already.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by massnative71

To some the alternative is going homeless, hungry, or (fill-in-the-blank). Again maybe a "choice" from your perspective, but not for the majority I can tell that with certainty. IDK maybe you had life handed to you on a silver platter, it's not that way for most of us.

Nope, father died fairly young. Mom was a nurse. Paid my way through undergrad and grad with a little scholarship help and loans (paid off, yay). Still supporting Mom to try to keep up with those high property taxes to keep her in her home, which is a pretty penny I assure you.


Your presenting a false dichotomy. That commuter rail money can be put toward housing and live closer in, in a smaller space, in a less desirable to the person neighborhood, or they can join forces with other people and do roommates or co-housing (I'm seeing more of this) or they can seek other employment, or any other number of choices. Your binary thinking betrays you. You made a choice, to relocated to a different region. I made a choice to do a longer commute (also to have some of that money saved go to Belmont property taxes). We make choices. I have no idea why that is so difficult to understand.

Originally Posted by massnative71

No, no, and no. Great job deflecting though.

Actually. Yes. You straight up LIED about what I said. It's right there in black and white.

Originally Posted by massnative71

Really???

Really. You can't answer the question I see.

Originally Posted by massnative71

To do what you claim is an "option" (at a rate affordable for most), would likely be outside local occupancy ordinances as well as violate any lease (assuming it's a legit rental). You must know this stuff, right?

No, there is nothing illegal about people having roommates. I've had them plenty of times, there was nothing illegal about it. There is nothing illegal about a couple with a kid having an apartment. Not sure why you are making things up.

Originally Posted by massnative71

Says the man who grew up in Belmont.

Ah, can't debate the issue so ad hominem attacks it is. Yes, I was lucky my parents in the late 60s bought in Belmont before I was born (my mother actually wanted Watertown) before it became really expensive and I received a good education. My mother is from Chelsea, my father from Queens/Baltimore and Quincy. Real privilege there. That was a choice they made. I am fortunate and I count my blessings.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by lrfox

Before we charge people comparable fares to NYC's vastly superior system, the commuter rail needs to improve. Boston also needs to step up its game on collecting fares (at all levels of service) which will put a big dent in costs. Finally, the state needs to work on different ways to gain additional funding for the system rather than increasing fares. Some of those ways have been shared in this thread already.

Fair point, but what comes first, the improved service, or the money for the improved service? No, I don't think the investment should be just coming from raising fairs, that's silliness, but keeping up with COL isn't a huge issue.

[tysmith95]

Originally Posted by lrfox

Before we charge people comparable fares to NYC's vastly superior system, the commuter rail needs to improve. Boston also needs to step up its game on collecting fares (at all levels of service) which will put a big dent in costs. Finally, the state needs to work on different ways to gain additional funding for the system rather than increasing fares. Some of those ways have been shared in this thread already.

The MBTA is in the process of creating a new payment system on the commuter rail and bus/subway lines to replace charliecard, mticket, and paper commuter rail passes. The system will work by forcing people to tap their card or phone before entering the commuter rail train, and big fines/penalties if someone is on the train but hasn't paid yet.

[Dm84]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Fair point, but what comes first, the improved service, or the money for the improved service?

The problem is CR riders are viewed as a bottomless pit of money. The fare increases are always most significant for CR riders and they get the lowest return on it. Whenever a fare increase is proposed the concern is always about the impact adding a dime to the bus fare will cause for people. No one cares what adding $30/month to a monthly pass holder does.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Fair point, but what comes first, the improved service, or the money for the improved service? No, I don't think the investment should be just coming from raising fairs, that's silliness, but keeping up with COL isn't a huge issue.

The Million (Billion?) dollar question. I think starting with better fare recovery (as tysmith pointed out, that that's a big part of the new fare collection system), better staff oversight (especially overtime pay), and sourcing additional funds via congestion tax, parking fines/fees, developer application/permitting fees, subtle gas tax increase, etc. would go a long way to boosting funding for the MBTA without increasing fares. It's just that fare increases are the easiest way for the T to do that. Commuter rail fare increases should be ruled out for the foreseeable future. The next increase, if it happens, will put MBTA fares at higher rates than Metro North. That's unacceptable. I think the rapid transit fares are reasonable and can sustain a small increase, however. They're not too far off from national norms.