Like he** I'm going to pay these prices! (Boston, Lowell: condo, find a job)

[id77]

Originally Posted by bizcuit

Not every retiree wants the hot weather (and especially the hot & humid weather) either.

I am getting close to retirement and if I don't stay in MA, it's because I'll be moving to NH or ME. I would hate Florida.

Agree.

Some will prioritize low taxes or budget. Others, proximity to family. Some might want to be near a specific attraction or business. I know a few near-retirees who care deeply about being near a hospital that specializes in treatments they will likely need in retirement.

I get the impression a fair number of retirees also choose both New England and Florida. They have a summer home up here and a winter home down in Florida somewhere. When I last went to the Keys (it was a February), there were quite a few MA, NY (I know, not New England), and CT plates on cars down there, and those waterfront homes in Orleans and Chatham aren't all owned by 30- or 40-somethings.

It will also be interesting to see how retiree patterns change in the next 20 years. It's quite possible that upcoming Gen X retirees follow those same patterns, but it's also quite possible we also start to see gradual swings toward other hotspots as interests change. Today's Florida could be tomorrow's Nashville or Texas.

[mdovell]

I'd argue the problem RI has is the same that VT has and to a point places in the midwest with lower populations. Professions licensed on the state level then consolidate to say one local area and if you can't find work there you're screwed. If you are in VT and can't find a medical job in Burlington that leaves out quite a bit, with RI it's Providence etc. Who goes to Wyoming to be a pediatric dentist? MA, NY, CT have other cities to find employment so if it's dominated by one local area it makes it much harder when that declines. Strip Providence out of RI and what do you have (I love newport btw but still).

Mass is expensive mostly on the east and cape cod. One might argue the berkshires for second home owners but there's still a fair amount in central and western mass that is much cheaper.

I can agree that not everyone thinks of the area to retire in but like I mentioned health care becomes a major factor. I'd also argue that transit can be one as well and until covid college communities. Enrichment classes and say a guest speaker can be a quality of life boost. A long time ago I thought of living in northeast nevada. But the more I saw the lack of jobs, lack of healthcare lack of education all added up. yes the weather changes but generally people are prepaired. Climate change isn't really new to New england. You put a quarter inch of snow in South Carolina and you might see state troopers overturned! I think the only things we don't really have would be significant wildfires and earthquakes.

there's an old planning journal that about ten or so years ago made predictions on baby boomers retiring and possibly moving. People pretty much move up to around 65. By the time they are 80 they stay put (for the most part). If someone has a specific condition and so does their spouse do they really want to move and transfer all of the health care over to another system?

[masssachoicetts]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

this just doesn't bear out in the numbers, that's all. You're putting too much weight on small idiosyncratic anecdotes. It's not a viable path forward for MA aside from the fact that old folks are naturally becoming more populous and a larger share of any given state population. Relative to other NE states (let alone non-NE states) MA doesn't perform in this regard... it best to accept it and plot a reasonable path forward.

In order to make effective change, you cant only focus on the best case (unlikely) scenario and it's highly unlikely MA ever becomes a retirement destination. It's not practical, full stop. There are very many other states with more retirees than MA that arent Florida lol.

MA residents have a delusion that almost every group has sufficient reasons to move to MA when in reality this has been disproven and debunked for decades, many times over. I attribute it to the poor performance of our neighboring states economically that provides this sorely inflated sense of self-importance and allure...


Its genuinely disappointing when I see MA residents slip to abusrd extremist arguments to make a point. Its like when folks say "racism isnt that bad-you could be in MS!" ignoring indicators that say otherwise...or the "price isn't that bad it isn't SF!" ignoring a few hundred MSAs or equally competitive MSAs with lower housing costs or "why would someone want to move to hot muggy FL! and not MA!" as though there aren't dozens of cheaper warmer states between here and Flrodia. It's intellectually lazy and dishonest and goes against what MA residents proclaim to be about which is a thoughtful conversation and an ability to deal with reality...

There's a kneejerk reaction in MA to fighting objectivity that doesn't favor MA no matter how small the issue is. And there an equally strong reaction to argue in favor of the exception rather than the rule. Knowing full well, it's largely invalid if not irrelevant..

Again. Not everybody wants FL NC SC GA etc.

If you tell anyone in my family they'd have to retire there they'd laugh at you. The point people are making is if you want transit accessibility a variety of things to do and value being close to family... MA is a great state to live in bar the High Housing costs.

It's on a MA forum. The argument isn't VA PA NJ DE OH are better. But it's inappropriate to bring those up ina discussion about MA and how to change the draw to MA and keep reted folks able to stay in MA who might be looking to leave just based on their SSI check. Lots of retired aged folks WANT to stay in MA, a lot cannot just for housing. Building that retirement friendly fortress of towns or areas would benefit MA so much.

So yes. On a MA forum who the hell would want to live in Virginia to be close to their family? Most people I know value family over a slightly better state for COL. Besides, people made routes in MA, had lifelong jobs and friends.. it would be very nice to have a retiree friendly area near Boston.

My aunt is 70 now. She values staying close to Boston for her wanning down job before retiring, staying close all brothers and sisters and going out on Fridays for drinks, dinner, etc with friends she's had since 1955. In what universe would moving to Maryland or Virginia behoove her? That doesn't even make any sense... And a looooot of Bostonians are in same predicament here.

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

generalizations are important though, it's the only way we can really have a conversation about statewide trends, and it's what many important folks are tasked with doing. oftentimes it's just a better way to deal with reality. If we got bogged down on the exceptions and anecdotes we wouldn't see the forest for the trees. All that's extreme is by comparing MA to FL or AZ.

My thing is in general folks make up for MA shortcomings by resorting to extremist arguments that highlight places or governments that are the polar opposite of us rather than exercising the fortitude to deal with nuance.

Obviously, MA's expense is prohibitively expensive to all but the high earners, dual-income highly educated couples, the subsidized underclass and group quarters folks (immigrants/students). Sure some local old people (meaning New England) will move to a town in MA and settle but what does that amount to?

MA has over 16% of the population 65+, the country overall is at 16%.
I am not saying MA is a place that attracts retirees from across America, but a majority of people that are in MA at the time of retiring stays in MA.

[masssachoicetts]

Originally Posted by Lampert

MA has over 16% of the population 65+, the country overall is at 16%.
I am not saying MA is a place that attracts retirees from across America, but a majority of people that are in MA at the time of retiring stays in MA.

Can't tress VAST enough. And alot of the ones who do leave, don't want to leave.

This will be a huge issue as the boomers head towards retirement in the next five years.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by mdovell

Of course but even the most affluent areas even in the most expensive areas if you look at the actual school aid for student you're looking at at least $12,000 for student. So obviously if a family of 4 has two students there's no way they're paying $12,000 for a kid to attend public school. I've heard that there was some schools in Lawrence where is up to $30,000 for a kid and there's no way that the average person of Lawrence is paying thirty thousand even if they were renting. That's why the state stepped in and that's why they were the lawsuits in the early eighties and the 1993 Reform Bill. I would make a strong argument that without the direct State funding of public education Massachusetts might not have an income tax.

There are some other portions of taxation that create inequalities. For example in the sales tax has portions that go directly to the MBTA even though not everybody in the state gets direct access to them.

Can we lower the cost of Education in Massachusetts? I don't know if we had. Is significant competition to become a teacher in the state because we do attract quite a variety of features. Compensation goes up with education and duration. So we can't really cut teacher pay that's off the table. We can probably cut some of the number of Administrators but as long as we have a process that we are reporting schedules to the federal government and other entities some of that might have to stay. Transportation costs and food cost of the other two major line items and I can't really see that much that would lower it. The big debate that generally goes on with education is neighborhood schools versus school choice. And your larger districts if you have a vocational school or magnet school they can be pretty heated competition about who actually get the first shot at putting their kid in them.

Here is the latest local aid distribution.



https://budget.digital.mass.gov/govb...y22/local-aid/


Concord gets a total of $3,797,771 in Chapter 70 aid, which by my calculations is just under $3,000 per pupil. Their total per pupil expenditure in 2019 was $23,573.40. That means the town still has to come up with over $20,000 per student. And due to receiving METCO students, Concord gets a higher amount of Chapter 70 aid than some other wealthy towns. Now take a family with two kids moving in, $20K X 2 = $40K. Just for the cost to schools alone. You are out of your mind if you think a typical new home is going to bring in that amount in new taxes. It's not even close. There is zero incentive for a town like Concord to zone for new housing that is not 55+.


I agree that school costs are out of control in Mass., but a big problem is the special ed and other unfunded mandates coming from above that local districts have almost zero control over.

[yesmaybe]

Originally Posted by Lampert

MA has over 16% of the population 65+, the country overall is at 16%.
I am not saying MA is a place that attracts retirees from across America, but a majority of people that are in MA at the time of retiring stays in MA.

There are a lot of people 65+ still working. 65 isn't really retirement age anymore. It's more 70, 75.. or never.

[AtkinsonDan]

Originally Posted by yesmaybe

There are a lot of people 65+ still working. 65 isn't really retirement age anymore. It's more 70, 75.. or never.

Pensions are not as prevalent as they were for the prior two generations. Many people in the boomer generation can't afford to retire.

[brightdoglover]

Originally Posted by AtkinsonDan

Pensions are not as prevalent as they were for the prior two generations. Many people in the boomer generation can't afford to retire.

Also a lot of divorces/multiple marriages and kids in college later in life.

[masssachoicetts]

Originally Posted by AtkinsonDan

Pensions are not as prevalent as they were for the prior two generations. Many people in the boomer generation can't afford to retire.

Yeah I'm not sure what company still gets a pension. I know like one person who has one set up. Most have an ira or 401k set up to supplement their SSI