Attacks at Poplar Plaza Kroger (Memphis: 2014, live, law)

[Robert_J]

Originally Posted by irishcopper

Open carry is legal in Tennessee if you have a valid Tennessee handgun carry permit, or HCP from a state with reciprocity with Tennessee. I generally carry concealed because I prefer the tactical advantage that carrying concealed provides. There are many times where it's better not to telegraph to a criminal that you're armed. As they say "it's better to be a good witness than a dead hero." I refuse to debate if open carry deters attackers because there are many variables. It just depends on who the attacker is and how crazy or desperate that they are. Well trained law enforcement officers are disarmed every year by assailants and injured or killed with their own weapons. I've watched surveillance tapes of prison inmates practicing disarming techniques on one another in the yard. If you choose to carry a handgun openly you'd better be proficient in drawing it quickly and shooting accurately, maintain superb situational awareness, be trained and skilled in weapons retention techniques and carry your handgun in at least a "Level II" retention holster. Both Range U.S.A. and Rangemasters both teach basic and advanced handgun shooting courses.

Rangemaster has closed their range on Mendenhall but Tom and his crew are still training at other locations in the area. He has a nice Facebook post where he stated that almost 45,000 people have taken the concealed carry class at that location.

[irishcopper]

Originally Posted by Robert_J

Rangemaster has closed their range on Mendenhall but Tom and his crew are still training at other locations in the area. He has a nice Facebook post where he stated that almost 45,000 people have taken the concealed carry class at that location.

That's unfortunate that they closed on Mendenhall. Thanks for the clarification. I currently reside out east and seldom drive by that former location. Regardless, I fully support law abiding Americans exercising their Second Amendment rights. If they aren't already proficient with a handgun I encourage people obtain tactical shooting training and learn the laws regarding when use of deadly force may be justified and when it is not.

[eastmemphisguy]

Originally Posted by Xander_Crews

Does Memphis have any laws banning open carry? I doubt these thugs would attack someone with a pistol visible on their hip... and if they did, the victim has a pistol.

A few of these kids get shot, I am quite certain you would see a drop in these kinds of crimes.

Please. The same knucklehead people have been shooting each other over nickels since the Garden of Eden and the same foolishness keeps on going on. If they had any sense or foresight, it wouldn't happen at all.

[irishcopper]

Originally Posted by eastmemphisguy

Please. The same knucklehead people have been shooting each other over nickels since the Garden of Eden and the same foolishness keeps on going on. If they had any sense or foresight, it wouldn't happen at all.

I'm not sure what your point is? Are you implying that people who are trained to protect themselves with firearms shouldn't be permitted to do so? As I stated in a previous post I'm not a proponent of "open carry". I don't believe that a firearm should be worn openly or brandished to intimidate or threaten. There's a significant element of people that will see that openly holstered handgun as a challenge.

460,530 Tennesseans currently have handgun carry permits. It's no surprise that Shelby County leads the state in HCP holders. The vast majority of these people do so responsibly and are aware of the serious consequences of using deadly force to protect themselves. The MPD does a commendable job given all of it's challenges and manpower short falls. However, they cannot be at all places at all times. In June 2005 the SCOTUS ruled during "Castle Rock vs. Gonzales" that the police do not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/po...otus.html?_r=0 Under the circumstances what options do people have?

[Dd714]

Originally Posted by Robert_J

Rangemaster has closed their range on Mendenhall but Tom and his crew are still training at other locations in the area. He has a nice Facebook post where he stated that almost 45,000 people have taken the concealed carry class at that location.

The Rangemaster range closed? Oh hell, that's where I shoot and took my training there, just haven't been in awhile.
I was also planning to take some of the advanced firearms training courses, maybe the shotgun class.

[Xander_Crews]

Originally Posted by eastmemphisguy

Please. The same knucklehead people have been shooting each other over nickels since the Garden of Eden and the same foolishness keeps on going on. If they had any sense or foresight, it wouldn't happen at all.

Drug and gang related violence is a completely different subject from a mob of teens attacking defenseless people based on race.

[eastmemphisguy]

Originally Posted by irishcopper

I'm not sure what your point is? Are you implying that people who are trained to protect themselves with firearms shouldn't be permitted to do so? As I stated in a previous post I'm not a proponent of "open carry". I don't believe that a firearm should be worn openly or brandished to intimidate or threaten. There's a significant element of people that will see that openly holstered handgun as a challenge.

My point is that the threat of being shot is not much of a deterrent to crime. People already get shot all the time living the thug life and the ones that survive simply look at it proudly as their Red Badge of Courage. It doesn't stop the usual suspects from doing what they do. I'm fairly unimpressed by the internet tough guys who just know if it had been them and they had their gun, they could have saved Memphis from the whole criminal element.

[Xander_Crews]

Originally Posted by eastmemphisguy

My point is that the threat of being shot is not much of a deterrent to crime. People already get shot all the time living the thug life and the ones that survive simply look at it proudly as their Red Badge of Courage. It doesn't stop the usual suspects from doing what they do. I'm fairly unimpressed by the internet tough guys who just know if it had been them and they had their gun, they could have saved Memphis from the whole criminal element.

These kids were not drug dealers or hardened gang members. They were stupid teen-age kids. Nobody claimed to be a "tough guy who would have saved Memphis from the whole criminal element", you made that up.

Are all black people gang members and drug dealers? That seems to be what you are implying.

[HomeIsWhere...]

Originally Posted by tigerphan

Sorry, simply existing at a Kroger parking lot does not mean you are looking for trouble. You should not have to worry about being a target because of your gender or race. It's not acceptable that people feel that a conceled carry permit or a can of pepper spray is required just to pickup produce, and it's definately not healthy to have the attitude that you should exist in a fortress between the hours of 9pm and 5am. You should not have to worry about your safety just because you happen to work late.

You are correct...that kind of attitude is going to hold Memphis back forever. It's going to hold much of America back for a very long time. We should all warn people to use common sense and be aware of their surroundings, but I draw the line when we start blaming the victims who may have let their guard down.

I have been reading this thread today and I have complete empathy and compassion for the victims of this dreadful crime as well as the citizens of Memphis, whether they be rich, poor, middle class, or homeless because wherever we live in America (yes, it is a national insanity and not limited to any particular state, city, or county) violence, gangs, drugs, and crime can happen anywhere.

Memphis is not alone and although I certainly do not have any answers I agree wholeheartedly it is misplaced judgment to blame the victims, in essence, for living their lives.

Originally Posted by Xander_Crews

Are all black people gang members and drug dealers? That seems to be what you are implying.

No, they most certainly are not and it is a huge shame and embarrassment across America for all of our citizens, wherever this barbaric and uncivilized behavior, regardless of race and/or ethnicity of these 'home grown terrorists' takes place.

In this country we have gang members and thugs of every race, color, and creed; unfortunately some more visible and highlighted than others. It is a crying shame that we, as citizens have to learn how to navigate our daily lives according to the whims and schedules of the anarchists who live among us.

Originally Posted by Emigrations

All of the bad press around Memphis is as bad as Detroit, Gary, etc.

etc...Chicago

7 charged in CTA Brown Line machete attack

A 26-year-old Jefferson Park man and his 17-year-old brother were waiting for the train shortly after midnight Monday when a group of four men and three teens approached them and asked them to flash gang signs. When the brothers refused and stated they were not part of a gang, police say 18-year-old Mario Elvira pulled out a machete and struck the 26-year-old victim in the head.

http://abc7chicago.com/news/7-charged-in-cta-brown-line-machete-attack/301518/

Please take heart citizens of Memphis, you are not alone and somewhere out here/there, someone from another city is feeling your horror, your pain and your outrage concerning the innocent victims and the good citizens. The injustice of the criminal actions of a few that can tarnish a city, a state, and a country; for what it's worth, you are not alone.

[tigerphan]

All this is incredibly frustrating seeing as how we have begged and demanded for better shopping and grocery options in the bluff city. Kroger invested a lot in that store (and is building an entirely new store on Union in mid town), and it's unfortunately turning out to be a risky investment.

People won't shop there after dark if this kind of thing happens. They had better do something about security or their investment will go very badly.

Originally Posted by Xander_Crews

These kids were not drug dealers or hardened gang members.

The first attacker arrested was out on bond from a gun possesion charge and was arrested earlier this year for posession and distribution of illegal drugs. Both the illegal drug charges and gun charges were still pending when he attempted to murder a young man simply for existing in a Kroger parking lot.

First Teen Charged In Kroger Attack Has Lengthy Criminal Past | Local 24 News | News, Weather and Sports for Memphis & the Mid-South | WATN-TV | LocalMemphis.com

Originally Posted by Xander_Crews

They were stupid teen-age kids.

I don't think anyone can argue this. Stupidity and ignorance is dangerous.....both of which are prevalent in America's inner cities. It starts with family culture, and it continues with a terrible public education system. Our country's policies have successfully destroyed the two-parent household in the inner city. The violence, hatred, ignorance and racism we see from the inner cities in this country are nothing but symptoms of a catastrophic problem that this country has created.

The first thug arrested was not enrolled in school this year, and his parents did not show up to his court hearing. How's that for stupidity and cultural bankruptcy? At least some of the other attackers were turned in by parents or grandparents. Those kids have a long term shot at accomplishing something in life.

Originally Posted by Xander_Crews

Are all black people gang members and drug dealers? That seems to be what you are implying.

I have read his post a dozen times and there is no possible way to interpret his words the way you concluded without being intellectual dishonest.

Originally Posted by eastmemphisguy

My point is that the threat of being shot is not much of a deterrent to crime.

You don't carry or use a firearm to deter and scare others from comitting a crime. You carry a firearm to protect you or your family's life. It's only a deterrent to life-threatening violence if you use it. A few rounds to the chest will stop almost anyone.

It's my understanding that Kroger employees are not allowed to carry firearms at work. I think it is negligent that they did not have adequate security at that location (even after admitting to problems in the weeks leading up to this incident) and did not provide a safe working environment for their employees. I hope they at least beef up security.