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Allow me first to say it was never my intention to increase or create stress for anyone. I expressed my views using very short sentences of unsubstantiated claims in a matter-of-fact tone which in hindsight, could be construed negatively. After studying psychology for 20 years, I have become very cynical and quite disgruntled.
However, I did offer valuable advice. I just didn't present it effectively to the target audience. I meant no disrespect. I have personally experienced panic attacks, but I didn't think that was relevant. I referred to the "awareness of sensitivity" and was criticized. Shortly thereafter, someone referred to the connection between anxiety and "people pleasers", which illustrated a major aspect of the idea I was trying to relay. Identify the issue and control the response. I'm sorry I failed to explain this concept in more detail I was glad to see that, pages later on this thread, the concept naturally was explored, with references to "owning your feelings".
My approach was admittedly confrontational in nature, but that is the exact approach I have personally found effective in dealing with panic attacks. It may or may not work for everyone else, I'm sure that meds help, but facing your fears is a necessary yet unpleasant part of coping with anxiety.
Thank you for explaining
Personally, when someone acts tough with me, and says stuff like "knock it off" or "buck up" or act in a confrontational manner, it just makes it worse, mainly I think because I know I have limited control over whats happening, and I know as its happening Im working really hard to stop it, calm down and get through it, and being told to knock it off makes it worse because I am TRYING to stop it. No one in their right mind would allow a panic attack to continue or anxiety to continue if they could easily stop it.
Im glad that someone being tough with you works, but I think, for the majority of people, the tough act only makes things worse.
I havent been on for a couple days, and wow there is soo much to read!! I am very happy this thread has been so active. To me, it means people are all sharing, helping, offering advise, listening, and just plain old venting as I do from time to time. I havent been able to read through all the post on here. I have skimmed through them though. I want to express my thanks and appreciation(sp?) to all of you who have written in response after my last post. It was a very hard day for me. I hate the thought that I could ruin someones day because of my disorder. I was hoping too that my husband would be more sensitive after talking to the ER Doctor. This disorder just changes everything. I guess I didnt realize how much it impacts our family members lives too. It was very very hurtful, however my daughter did have a wonderful amazing time at Sea World. So for that I am thankful. Her BD should be a special event, as she is truly an angel. When they got home, I had decorated the living room with my other daughter, we had flowers everywhere, balloons, and her BD cake. She was very happy with all of it.
After sitting here and crying for most of that day, I decided that I cant be like this anymore. I have lost so much of my life due to this disorder. So, since then, I have been trying very hard to not let panic get to me. I have just been pretty hurt by how cruel the whole thing was. I still am sad about it. So it kind of shut me down for a few days. But anyway, I just wanted you guys to know it means a lot to me that I have all of you to talk to. I am going to read all the posts and catch up on what I have missed. I will respond to them later tonight. Everyone please be happy and safe.
Suzet, I can only imagine how this recent episode must have been for you. I know what you mean by shutting down, I do that sometimes as well. I go in my room and shut the door, its like I can't take anymore noise, input or anything. I have silence, I watch TV of course and talk with the kitties.
I have wished so many times that we all lived near enough each other that we could get together in person. Have a support group in person, share time together when one is shutting down.
I have never had anyone in my life that would do that for me.
Personally, when someone acts tough with me, and says stuff like "knock it off" or "buck up" or act in a confrontational manner, it just makes it worse, mainly I think because I know I have limited control over whats happening, and I know as its happening Im working really hard to stop it, calm down and get through it, and being told to knock it off makes it worse because I am TRYING to stop it. No one in their right mind would allow a panic attack to continue or anxiety to continue if they could easily stop it.
Im glad that someone being tough with you works, but I think, for the majority of people, the tough act only makes things worse.
For the record, I wouldn't say those things. That would be like telling someone who was recently committed to a psych hospital to "calm down". That method of confrontation is counterproductive. My style tends to be confrontive in general, and probably even moreso on these threads. It's not like I'm getting paid for this. So I did "cut to the chase" quickly. It would probably take 20 sessions for me to be that confrontive, and I would have presented it differently. It's a very delicate area. Ever see Good Will Hunting? Great movie. Remember when Robin Williams slung Matt Damon against the wall by his throat?? Very confrontive. Highly unethical. Yet very effective in that case.
It's not that someone being tough with me worked, you're right, that just made things worse. I had to figure out what I really wanted, realize what things really mattered, and stand up for what I really believed and how I truly felt, no matter how those actions were perceived by others. I established a baseline of tolerance, though subjective at times, to facilitate the independent formation of individual principles not to be compromised by exernal influence to assist in identifying the behaviors that I personally will not, and cannot tolerate.
Whew, this got soooo long! Maybe read one chapter today, the other tomorrow!
Suzet, I am so glad that your daughter had a nice day - and it was with the whole family!
You and your other daughter made a wonderful contribution to the day's events by getting everything ready at home. What a nice surprise for her.
And, you are right. This is a cruel disease and shows no favorites, whether you are a nice person or not. I am happy that you have told yourself that you don't want to take it anymore. It can help to turn the anger and disappointment you have been feeling about yourself and your situation and turn it on the disorder itself.
It sounds like you are making some very good decisions for yourself.
Lindsay, I really relate to what you are talking about with taking trips or just a quick jaunt to the mall. It is so much more "comfortable" to drive oneself and meet everyone. Much more control.
Although, I don't have full-blown anxiety attacks any longer, I still need this control. I, too, never travel anywhere including around town without my food, water, sunscreen, a book, tissues, hand sanitizer, extra napkins, you name it. My husband teases me (sometimes, annoyed) that I carry half of my belongings with me to go anywhere.
If we are taking a weekend trip, I have 6-8 outfits and a separate bag of shoes because I have to be prepared for anything that might come up. My husband cannot surprise me with a scenic new route without discussing it with me first. He knows that I will not go if we don't discuss it prior to departure.
Three or four weeks ago my husband wanted to know if I wanted to go out to eat for dinner. I said that I would because I had been so busy all day, it would be great to not have to cook. Sweet. We usually go to one of 3 places in town for dinner. For one thing, I have severe food allergies and these restaurants are pretty safe for me.
As we backed out of the driveway, my DH said that he thought we could try a new steakhouse about 25 miles away. I told him "NO", we didn't plan it. He said that was where he wanted to go and that is where we were going. Period. We were just over a mile from our house and I was still protesting that he didn't ask me about it first. I asked him to take me home. He refused.
As he pulled up to a stop sign, I opened the door and jumped out of the car. (I would not recommend this to anyone!) I started to walk back home as he continued on his way down the road. It was a difficult walk, mostly uphill, but I made it to our street in about 20 minutes. My husband passed me and drove into the garage just as the house was within sight.
I calmly walked into the garage, had my purse with me, and got into the car and took myself out to dinner. When I arrived home about 2 hours later, my DH apologized for leaving me to walk and for not asking for my opinion on trying a new restaurant. No fight, no hard feelings. I remained calm and non-accusing, so he was able to also.
This might sound like something that a spoiled little kid would do, but for me it is taking control of a situation. I was uncomfortable (not panicking, but uncomfortable) with the plan and in order to keep control for myself, I acted as my own best advocate.
You do not have to go someplace you do not want to go if it makes you uncomfortable. You do not have to speak to someone you don't want to speak to because they upset you. You do not have to listen to someone berate you if they think you are being irrational, silly, ridiculous, you know all of the accusations.
I think that the one common link among people, particularly women, with anxiety disorder is that we are often bullied and criticized as children. As adults, we often are still around people who we feel are bullying us and critical of us. We have a problem of not feeling accepted for who we really are and we tend to be meek, as opposed to agressive.
Our personalities allow us to be victims of family members, friends, teachers, the cranky driver next to us on the road, everyone in authority - even our doctors. Our best defense to resist going into a panic or an anxiety attack is to stand up for ourselves, what we want, and what we think. We have good ideas, good hearts, and we are worth everything that life can hand us. We just have to reach out and grab it. But, please, do say thank you.
Handitak, I think this is why things escalate for you when someone tells you to buck up or get on with it! They are assuming control for your life when you want to have the control. This is when we have to say, while shaking in our boots, "Thanks for the advice, but I can handle this very well my own way." Turn away, brush their dust off your feet and off you go. One more success. Each one builds a little confidence and you feel so much more in control.
Dbldeez, I know that your intentions were good and you felt you were giving some good advice - and it is. But, the authoritative way it might be given again gives you all of the control and removes it from your "target audience". Hence, not listening receptive ears, but hurt and inflammation.
We do want to identify each of our underlying issues because maybe then we can be in better control of what is happening and avoid the anxiety trigger. Eventually, maybe we can actually overcome it, not just avoid it. But, it has to be on each of our own terms, in our own way, in our own time. Control is not a bad thing if we use it to make our lives normal.
Gem, I'm with you, I like to plan things out as well. You should see the size of my purse, it has a place to carry two water bottles and alot of other stuff I feel I need.
When I go to class, I have a case that has wheels, I carry all kinds of things in there.
I have found that people who deal with me, only make things worse when their approach is like a 2x4 to the side of the head. Their interaction becomes part of the problem rather then part of the solution.
Suzet, I am so glad that your daughter had a nice day - and it was with the whole family!
You and your other daughter made a wonderful contribution to the day's events by getting everything ready at home. What a nice surprise for her.
And, you are right. This is a cruel disease and shows no favorites, whether you are a nice person or not. I am happy that you have told yourself that you don't want to take it anymore. It can help to turn the anger and disappointment you have been feeling about yourself and your situation and turn it on the disorder itself.
It sounds like you are making some very good decisions for yourself.
Lindsay, I really relate to what you are talking about with taking trips or just a quick jaunt to the mall. It is so much more "comfortable" to drive oneself and meet everyone. Much more control.
Although, I don't have full-blown anxiety attacks any longer, I still need this control. I, too, never travel anywhere including around town without my food, water, sunscreen, a book, tissues, hand sanitizer, extra napkins, you name it. My husband teases me (sometimes, annoyed) that I carry half of my belongings with me to go anywhere.
If we are taking a weekend trip, I have 6-8 outfits and a separate bag of shoes because I have to be prepared for anything that might come up. My husband cannot surprise me with a scenic new route without discussing it with me first. He knows that I will not go if we don't discuss it prior to departure.
Three or four weeks ago my husband wanted to know if I wanted to go out to eat for dinner. I said that I would because I had been so busy all day, it would be great to not have to cook. Sweet. We usually go to one of 3 places in town for dinner. For one thing, I have severe food allergies and these restaurants are pretty safe for me.
As we backed out of the driveway, my DH said that he thought we could try a new steakhouse about 25 miles away. I told him "NO", we didn't plan it. He said that was where he wanted to go and that is where we were going. Period. We were just over a mile from our house and I was still protesting that he didn't ask me about it first. I asked him to take me home. He refused.
As he pulled up to a stop sign, I opened the door and jumped out of the car. (I would not recommend this to anyone!) I started to walk back home as he continued on his way down the road. It was a difficult walk, mostly uphill, but I made it to our street in about 20 minutes. My husband passed me and drove into the garage just as the house was within sight.
I calmly walked into the garage, had my purse with me, and got into the car and took myself out to dinner. When I arrived home about 2 hours later, my DH apologized for leaving me to walk and for not asking for my opinion on trying a new restaurant. No fight, no hard feelings. I remained calm and non-accusing, so he was able to also.
This might sound like something that a spoiled little kid would do, but for me it is taking control of a situation. I was uncomfortable (not panicking, but uncomfortable) with the plan and in order to keep control for myself, I acted as my own best advocate.
You do not have to go someplace you do not want to go if it makes you uncomfortable. You do not have to speak to someone you don't want to speak to because they upset you. You do not have to listen to someone berate you if they think you are being irrational, silly, ridiculous, you know all of the accusations.
I think that the one common link among people, particularly women, with anxiety disorder is that we are often bullied and criticized as children. As adults, we often are still around people who we feel are bullying us and critical of us. We have a problem of not feeling accepted for who we really are and we tend to be meek, as opposed to agressive.
Our personalities allow us to be victims of family members, friends, teachers, the cranky driver next to us on the road, everyone in authority - even our doctors. Our best defense to resist going into a panic or an anxiety attack is to stand up for ourselves, what we want, and what we think. We have good ideas, good hearts, and we are worth everything that life can hand us. We just have to reach out and grab it. But, please, do say thank you.
Handitak, I think this is why things escalate for you when someone tells you to buck up or get on with it! They are assuming control for your life when you want to have the control. This is when we have to say, while shaking in our boots, "Thanks for the advice, but I can handle this very well my own way." Turn away, brush their dust off your feet and off you go. One more success. Each one builds a little confidence and you feel so much more in control.
Dbldeez, I know that your intentions were good and you felt you were giving some good advice - and it is. But, the authoritative way it might be given again gives you all of the control and removes it from your "target audience". Hence, not listening receptive ears, but hurt and inflammation.
We do want to identify each of our underlying issues because maybe then we can be in better control of what is happening and avoid the anxiety trigger. Eventually, maybe we can actually overcome it, not just avoid it. But, it has to be on each of our own terms, in our own way, in our own time. Control is not a bad thing if we use it to make our lives normal.
Gemkeeper:
You advised Lindsay:
"You do not have to go someplace you do not want to go if it makes you uncomfortable. You do not have to speak to someone you don't want to speak to because they upset you."
"[Women] are often bullied and criticized as children......We have a problem of not feeling accepted for who we really are and we tend to be meek, as opposed to agressive".
"Our personalities allow us to be victims... Our best defense to resist going into a panic or an anxiety attack is to stand up for ourselves, what we want, and what we think".
Strangely enough, these statements reflect the basic concepts I have tried to convey. Yet I'm referred to as "authoritative" or categorized with "hurt and inflammation". This paradox is discouraging, making it impossible for me to point out the connection. That's my only attempt to "sugar coat" any of these undeniable truths that I initially pointed out and you reiterated. My last two cents: own your reactions to my advice. I'm guessing if you could express your frustrations with everyone in the real world in the same way you've expressed your frustrations with me, you would actually make some progress.
Gemkeeper:
You advised Lindsay:
"You do not have to go someplace you do not want to go if it makes you uncomfortable. You do not have to speak to someone you don't want to speak to because they upset you."
"[Women] are often bullied and criticized as children......We have a problem of not feeling accepted for who we really are and we tend to be meek, as opposed to agressive".
"Our personalities allow us to be victims... Our best defense to resist going into a panic or an anxiety attack is to stand up for ourselves, what we want, and what we think".
Strangely enough, these statements reflect the basic concepts I have tried to convey. Yet I'm referred to as "authoritative" or categorized with "hurt and inflammation". This paradox is discouraging, making it impossible for me to point out the connection. That's my only attempt to "sugar coat" any of these undeniable truths that I initially pointed out and you reiterated. My last two cents: own your reactions to my advice. I'm guessing if you could express your frustrations with everyone in the real world in the same way you've expressed your frustrations with me, you would actually make some progress.
I don't doubt that you have sound advice to give, but its not what you say, it is how you say it.
Yes, the net is a tricky place because its easy to take someones written word and read it in a bad way.
Personally, I often go back and edit a post I have written because I realise, on reflection, it doesn't come off the way I intended.
At the end of the day, ALL the good advice I have to give is automatically nullified by the fact it seems as if I am being mean and nobody looks at what I have to say that may help, just the way that it is said.
One of my psychology teachers at school was a bloodless, soul-less kind of creature. She had no compassion or feeling for people. She showed this video of orphaned children and then asked what was our first thoughts, mine was for the sadness of them having no parents. She evaluated it purely based on the fact they were being cared in an orphanage, no feeling for the loss of their parents at all.
Its no wonder she didn't care for having a practice. Some people are clearly NOT suited to deal with people in the middle of crises. They are better suited for other areas of the field, like research and compiling data. This is what she did after giving her practice a try, then moved on to teaching.
My Dr just called -- you can email them and ask questions -- anyway, she said thyroid issues can cause anxiety,
Interesting...I am 42 now but when I was in the 7th grade I was losing my hair and was developing bald patches and was having dizzy spells and had on occasion fell to the floor because of it. At first I was on some sort of nerve pill,and had also discovered I had an over-active thyroid so I took something for that as well.One or both of those medications had stopped the hair loss and dizziness.I forgot all about that until you mentioned the thyroid thing.Unfortunately I can't have that checked at this time because I don't have insurance so I only go to the docter if absolutley necessary,since it is all out of pocket. So I have only seen the doctor once in the past 12 years. But with that comment I can see where there could possibly be a connection.
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. I hate the thought that I could ruin someones day because of my disorder. I was hoping too that my husband would be more sensitive after talking to the ER Doctor. This disorder just changes everything. I guess I didnt realize how much it impacts our family members lives too. It was very very hurtful, however my daughter did have a wonderful amazing time at Sea World. So for that I am thankful. Her BD should be a special event, as she is truly an angel. When they got home, I had decorated the living room with my other daughter, we had flowers everywhere, balloons, and her BD cake. She was very happy with all of it. 
Whew, this got soooo long! Maybe read one chapter today, the other tomorrow!
