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people are different. I don't think one persons way is any better than another's -just different. Nor do I think people who prefer alone time are more likely to become ill than social butterflies. That just doesn't fly with me.
My sister is the type person who thrives on being in the middle of whatever is going on and if nothing is going on, she will create havoc or drama. She simply can't be alone. Can't have down time. She stays sick a lot.
I should point out that I know quite a few people like her.
I'm somewhere in the middle. I love being home. If I'm alone-no problem as I can relax or find something to do to amuse myself. If there are others in the house with me-that's ok too. I like to interact with people, but it isn't a requirement for my well being. I'm outgoing but can be as comfortable alone. I guess I could say I'm comfortable in my own skin.
I think too many people aren't comfortable with themselves and are always out seeking that "magic thing" to make them feel happy, good about themselves. To fit in. Some people collect friends like others collect stamps. Are they happy??? Doesn't always seem so to me. People need to connect within themselves, work on their life attitudes and stop seeking approval of others to make their lives complete.
I think it's over-population, or population congestion -- at least for me. Before this trip, I was so tired of being around people all day, so many of them grumpy and rude, that I just wanted to get away from everyone.
Since we've traveled for the last ten months, I actually find myself needing to go be near people!
Technology has a lot to do with it. Instead of talking ppl now just text. In the supermarket instead of going to a cashier ppl go to the express checkout. These seem like little things but its showing a trend to avoid dealing with other ppl. One day everyone will live in their own bubble...perhaps literally.
"in spite of" (not meant to refute) Coyotesky's Osho quote and the other attempts to pinpoint ....
this thread is titled: isolation: a growing problem everywhere
as i understand, and to a considerable part experience it:
anyone realizing themselves as individuals but having to conform to societal and economic pressures will sooner or later find themselves isolated; whether the symptoms can be labeled as aloneness or loneliness will be irrelevant at this point in their lives.
the pressure to conform is even aggravated by the indirect guilt feeling coming with the sense of being a misfit already. yes, it's my responsibility, but so what, when it's become unbearable?
in short: in order to be deemed worthy of someone's attention, interest, support, compassion, i might have to sacrifice my self. (not even getting to upbringing and education as yet!)
in my eyes it is intellectually dishonest and unfair to use the word responsibility for both active and passive interactions on the single individual.
it begins with all the "cognitive dissonances" and does not end with the withdrawal symptoms so readily diagnosed. imho.
the following is only one of many articles one can read on the subject. the tenor is overwhelmingly onesided, still.
thankfully, this topic appears in the world forum, so it can be viewed in a much wider context of behavioral patterns that occur across all borders and have pervaded many cultures. i am talking about
communications reduced to interrogation and investigation, for instance, and explanations not evading or glossing over the effects thereof:
"in spite of" (not meant to refute) Coyotesky's Osho quote and the other attempts to pinpoint ....
this thread is titled: isolation: a growing problem everywhere
as i understand, and to a considerable part experience it:
anyone realizing themselves as individuals but having to conform to societal and economic pressures will sooner or later find themselves isolated; whether the symptoms can be labeled as aloneness or loneliness will be irrelevant at this point in their lives.
the pressure to conform is even aggravated by the indirect guilt feeling coming with the sense of being a misfit already. yes, it's my responsibility, but so what, when it's become unbearable?
in short: in order to be deemed worthy of someone's attention, interest, support, compassion, i might have to sacrifice my self. (not even getting to upbringing and education as yet!)
in my eyes it is intellectually dishonest and unfair to use the word responsibility for both active and passive interactions on the single individual.
it begins with all the "cognitive dissonances" and does not end with the withdrawal symptoms so readily diagnosed. imho.
the following is only one of many articles one can read on the subject. the tenor is overwhelmingly onesided, still.
thankfully, this topic appears in the world forum, so it can be viewed in a much wider context of behavioral patterns that occur across all borders and have pervaded many cultures. i am talking about
communications reduced to interrogation and investigation, for instance, and explanations not evading or glossing over the effects thereof:
If i understand the gist of your post(and it's quite possible that i don't) i'll say this;
Those of us who see the dominant culture for what it is and reject it are not (cannot be) forced to either sacrifice ourselves and our freedom/individuality to accommodate it or forced into the reactionary position of rejecting it only to remain sorrowfully in isolation.
The dominant culture cannot be or should not be or does not necessarily have to be allowed to prevail and there is the opportunity to skillfully reject it and positively find new ways of living on this planet so that those of us who may be deemed 'misfits' by that dominant culture have the potential to take part in the creation of a new paradigm(s).
Perhaps there is a window open now that will not remain open indefinitely and perhaps we need to find that opening in order to ultimately move into new ways of being and new ways of inhabiting this planet so as not to remain apparent victims of the the current "set-up"
"Raging against the machine" only feeds that machine.
But succumbing to it is not an option.
Skillfully extricating oneself from it is key and i don't see how this can be accomplished without the recovery of our essential nature which naturally/organically results in or coincides with the shedding of the conditioned / socialized self that has no other purpose but to blindly follow and take part in a social order that has absolutely no interest in or support of liberation.
The "defense mechanisms" developed over time in order to shield oneself from it and the cynicism that accompanies a deadened and withdrawn existence due to such shielding, ie; depression, is tragic.
That's my fancy way of saying to all of us who find ourselves in painful isolation that there are other options besides the two obvious ones, ie; 1) remaining isolated and withdrawn from an external world that is antithetical to our natures and often feeling badly about ourselves because of it or 2) trying to fit ourselves into external situations that we intuitively and/or either consciously or unconsciously recognize as being antithetical to that essential nature.
Last edited by coyoteskye; 07-20-2009 at 02:37 PM..
I actually think it's too much communication and exposure to people really, plus constant mobility.
I know there are so many people that I must engage, 30 usually but can be up to a hundred with busy days, it wears me out. My family, friends, and sometimes office are in constant communication via online communication and cellphones with some sort of drama or emergency. Traveling is always a pain because of people, nuts on the bus and idiots on the road. I think you need to get some time alone to get back to balance from being pulled in every direction and being constantly interrupted. Personally I crave a few hours of isolation each day.
Mobility is a factor too. People move around and flow to what benefits them the most, and for many out of sight is out of mind. Many don't put a great deal of effort into things because it's just going to change, people move to new places and new jobs constantly.
If i understand the gist of your post(and it's quite possible that i don't) i'll say this;
Those of us who see the dominant culture for what it is and reject it are not (cannot be) forced to either sacrifice ourselves and our freedom/individuality to accommodate it or forced into the reactionary position of rejecting it only to remain sorrowfully in isolation.
so you do understand, although you can always leave it at some sophisticated piece of educational mimicry. imho
The dominant culture cannot be or should not be or does not necessarily have to be allowed to prevail and there is the opportunity to skillfully reject it and positively find new ways of living on this planet so that those of us who may be deemed 'misfits' by that dominant culture have the potential to take part in the creation of a new paradigm(s).
tried and failed, on a large scale. imho.
Perhaps there is a window open now that will not remain open indefinitely and perhaps we need to find that opening in order to ultimately move into new ways of being and new ways of inhabiting this planet so as not to remain apparent victims of the the current "set-up"
"Raging against the machine" only feeds that machine.
perhaps, yes! the latest fad is not rage, but sarcasm. directing itself against the victims, not the machine whose machinations have overtaken them at mach3 speed. imho
But succumbing to it is not an option. Skillfully extricating oneself from it is key and i don't see how this can be accomplished without the recovery of our essential nature which naturally/organically results in or coincides with the shedding of the conditioned / socialized self that has no other purpose but to blindly follow and take part in a social order that has absolutely no interest in or support of liberation.
come again: catch 22? those who may have accomplished or have the potential for such accomplishments are fully rejected and refused by those who see precisely that as a threat to their status quo. <hoodwinks, eh>
The "defense mechanisms" developed over time in order to shield oneself from it and the cynicism that accompanies a deadened and withdrawn existence due to such shielding, ie; depression, is tragic.
thanks for overwhelming empathy and subcutane compassion!
wishing you well, nonetheless: hope this at least translates for you into "dollars & sense"!
That's my fancy way of saying to all of us who find ourselves in painful isolation that there are other options besides the two obvious ones, ie; 1) remaining isolated and withdrawn from an external world that is antithetical to our natures and often feeling badly about ourselves because of it or 2) trying to fit ourselves into external situations that we intuitively and/or either consciously or unconsciously recognize as being antithetical to that essential nature.
fancy!
osho's last words?
btw. i had ample opportunity to watch that movement rise and fall. and see more than one person going into a "state" of real "emergency" ().
btw. i had ample opportunity to watch that movement rise and fall. and see more than one person going into a "state" of real "emergency" ().
"Although you can always leave it at some sophisticated piece of educational mimicry" totally eludes me. *sigh*
I'm not speaking of "movements" (osho or otherwise and have no connection with either) or failed utopian experiments past or future.
I'm talking about making a choice to liberate oneself and consequently naturally extricate said self from the oppressive forces of the dominant culture or to succumb to it.
To keep an eye on it ... to see it for what it is ... serves as a mirror for who i am not and helps to keep me on my toes so i don't fall victim to its more subtle and seductive manifestations.
There is no catch22 in freedom.
I don't know how to receive the comment about my "overwhelming empathy and subcutane compassion (whatever that is)" and am not sure whether or not that was a sarcastic remark but given that i'm familiar with both intense isolation and deep depression, i hope it wasn't.
I try to be around people as much as possible. We are social animals and isolation is not a good idea.
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