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I don't think it is so much about the illegals who convey a negative image of MX. That's undoubtedly a factor but I suspect the biggest contributor is the US (and world) media's portrayal of Mexico as a country dominated by an oligopoly of drug cartels fighting each other whilst slaying thousands of innocent people, and a government that is completely ineffective at handling the crisis. I'm sorry, but no I'm not going to have a positive view of Mexico when I read about how the drug cartels have just massacred 72 innocent people from Central America and that three mayors have been killed in one month. I mean, what do you expect people to think when they read these kinds of things?
And by the way, these are not American sources. They are British and Indian, respectively. The whole world portrays Mexico as a dangerous place to live because it certainly appears to be just that.
Yeah right, 1 million americans who live full time in Mexico think like you do (sarcasm)...All international media, specially from the USA, is over sensationalizing the "drug war"...And come on, how comes India critizices Mexico when it has more problems and its poorer than Mexico?
And yes they most certainly are demanding US citizenship as the reward for breaking the laws of the USA.
And the Dream Act is just another demand they make, anyone whose parents had them smuggled in is to be given US citizenhip.
And yes these people are a shame to their own country, they lie all the time about how bad it is, insist they have no chance in their own country when the reality is they do.
And no - they would not starve to death back home but they are the ones trying to give that impression.
Well, it is said that 1 million mexicans have come back permanently to Mexico because of the downturn in the USA. You know, there are too many illegals in the USA because we have as a neighbor a country that is so damn rich. It is as you had a mansion in a middle class suburb in the USA...If you had India or Somalia as nieghbors it would be worst...
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
I realize that. It's the illegals from Mexico living in the USA who insist everything is so bad in Mexico they cannot live there but must be allowed to come to the USA and bring their families.
Yes, I am very aware that Mexico has a growing middle class and that no one is starving to death, and that the unemployment rate of Mexico is much lower than the unemployment rate in the USA.
Most Americans don't travel to Mexico to see the people of Mexico who love their country and live and work there, and who do improve themselves there. Americans see the illegals who insist that Mexico is terrible and that they want a better life, to improve themselves as though coming illegally to the USA makes them better than those who stay in Mexico.
Unfortunately they are where many Americans get their impressions - not first hand. Americans who travel to Mexico see it's not terrible at all.
Well, for sure many illegals are poor and they live by the day in Mexico, but they are not starving. May be, as you say, many say they would starve to death in Mexico to avoid deportation, but it is not the case; in Mexico even university and health care is free of charge (from a french model), so there are good opportunities in Mexico for those who want to better themselves.
Well, if I have to be honest, the unemployment rate is lower in Mexico because there is also a lot of employment in the informal sector of the mexican economy; but yes, there is a growing mexican middle class.
Yes, it's so bad that Americans get their impressions about Mexico from illegals, when there are other types of mexicans; we could say that these are prejudices. And worse is that they also get their impressions of Mexico from illegals of Central and South America that use Mexico as a passing territory to reach the "american dream", thinking that all illegals are mexicans.
I dont think US is making mexico look bad. it is just plain bad. my fiance has two uncles that are wealthy lawyers and they were captured by mexican gang members and they were both tortured and were told if they dont give them everything they own including their house and cars and everyhting they would kill them and their whole family. so they did and now they are alive luckily. ive heard too many stories about the gangs and how they control the police. the police seem to have no control over the gangs because if they dont comply with them they get killed. so like i said mexico is just plain bad. and one tip to remember dont ever drive a nice looking car down into mexico. around the border might be alright but trust me if its nice enough you wont be leaving mexico with it.
Well, it is said that 1 million mexicans have come back permanently to Mexico because of the downturn in the USA. You know, there are too many illegals in the USA because we have as a neighbor a country that is so damn rich. It is as you had a mansion in a middle class suburb in the USA...If you had India or Somalia as nieghbors it would be worst...
Well, for sure many illegals are poor and they live by the day in Mexico, but they are not starving. May be, as you say, many say they would starve to death in Mexico to avoid deportation, but it is not the case; in Mexico even university and health care is free of charge (from a french model), so there are good opportunities in Mexico for those who want to better themselves.
Well, if I have to be honest, the unemployment rate is lower in Mexico because there is also a lot of employment in the informal sector of the mexican economy; but yes, there is a growing mexican middle class.
Yes, it's so bad that Americans get their impressions about Mexico from illegals, when there are other types of mexicans; we could say that these are prejudices. And worse is that they also get their impressions of Mexico from illegals of Central and South America that use Mexico as a passing territory to reach the "american dream", thinking that all illegals are mexicans.
Yeah - one time when I was in the city of Chihuahua, I got to talking with this guy who said he spent a summer in Wisconsin. He wanted to see what it was all about because working in the USA is supposed to be so great. He got on a free train, made his way to Wisconsin and he said the farms were so green, the pay was good and the people were friendly but he said in his heart he could never be anything but Mexican and Mexico was his home so he came back. He said he'd rather be poor but in his own home, in his own country and he could never really be happy away from his country.
The problem for Americans is they aren't going to bump into this kind of guy unless they bump into him in Mexico. They're going to see the ones who justify why they got the hell out and why they want to live illegally in some other country and will put down their own country to justify why they left it.
It's fine if someone really feels like they belong in another country because they want to become a real part of it and they fit with it better than their own. And it's fine if someone loves his own country more than any other country. It's those who try to have it both ways - who claim they love Mexico but act like it would be like hell to have to live there that do the most harm to it's image.
[quote=malamute;15970870]A lot of Americans don't follow the news and they don't follow British and Indian news sources. The USA media is actually not reporting much on Mexico. More people know more about the latest events regarding Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan than they know about foreign current events.
Even what goes on in Juarez which is right on the border isn't being publicized much in US news media. I'm always surprised how much people in the USA don't know - people who are average in intelligence and education and they have very little clue because their local news never mentions it.
quote]
The point I was making wasn't whether Americans follow British or Indian sources. My point addressed the thread topic that "US contributes to create a bad image of Mexico", specifically that if that is true, then the United States is only one of many countries that do so.
I don't disagree with your point that Americans tend to pay more attention to wasteful topics such as Lindsey Lohan. I do not agree that the US is "actually not reporting much on Mexico." Every time I turn on CNN headline news there is something about the Falcon Lake murder, hostages in Acapulco (or wherever that was), etc. This article was just yesterday posted on msnbc.com: National Guardsman shot dead in Mexico - World news - Americas - Focus on Mexico - msnbc.com
Yeah right, 1 million americans who live full time in Mexico think like you do (sarcasm)...All international media, specially from the USA, is over sensationalizing the "drug war"...And come on, how comes India critizices Mexico when it has more problems and its poorer than Mexico?
I don't recall ever sharing my personal thoughts on Mexico. I actually live in San Diego, 20 minutes from the border, and have been to Tijuana several times. I have personally never encountered a dangerous situation there. However, I would be a denialist to conclude that Tijuana is safe based only on that, because there is clear and convincing evidence to the contrary. People are killed in drug-related violence every day in Mexico, and that's just the reality of the situation. It hardly needs to be "over-sensationalized".
You say 1 million Americans live in Mexico. Well, so what? There are about 5.5 million undocumented immigrants from Mexico alone living in the United States. The fact that Americans live in Mexico does not negate the fact that it is still a country rife with violence with a government that is unequipped to handle it.
A lot of Americans don't follow the news and they don't follow British and Indian news sources. The USA media is actually not reporting much on Mexico. More people know more about the latest events regarding Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan than they know about foreign current events.
Even what goes on in Juarez which is right on the border isn't being publicized much in US news media. I'm always surprised how much people in the USA don't know - people who are average in intelligence and education and they have very little clue because their local news never mentions it.
quote]
The point I was making wasn't whether Americans follow British or Indian sources. My point addressed the thread topic that "US contributes to create a bad image of Mexico", specifically that if that is true, then the United States is only one of many countries that do so.
I don't disagree with your point that Americans tend to pay more attention to wasteful topics such as Lindsey Lohan. I do not agree that the US is "actually not reporting much on Mexico." Every time I turn on CNN headline news there is something about the Falcon Lake murder, hostages in Acapulco (or wherever that was), etc. This article was just yesterday posted on msnbc.com: National Guardsman shot dead in Mexico - World news - Americas - Focus on Mexico - msnbc.com
You may be right that most Americans aren't paying attention, but it is not for want of coverage on the issue.
The National Guardsman story is another good example. The news is making it seem almost as though he was shot and killed because he was a National Guardsman and a US citizen. It's reported he lived in Juarez, he was not active duty National Guard. It's highly unlikely that he was killed for those reasons at all nor that he was over there for those reasons. He was killed because he lived there and his family is there and probably some other reason along those lines.
I cannot think of a single case where a typical American citizen (one with no family ties in Mexico) just went over there as a tourist and got killed. This is still a war over turf between drug trafficking gangs but there is now a lot of street violence like carjackings. I would suspect an average everyday American citizen could be mugged or if driving a certain type of vehicle, could be a victim of a carjacking.
Plus the media doesn't always point out that it's the border areas that are experiencing the break down of law and order that make them especially dangerous, an American going to Mexico City or Oaxaca just faces the same old risks that one faces anywhere they might go.
The National Guardsman story is another good example. The news is making it seem almost as though he was shot and killed because he was a National Guardsman and a US citizen. It's reported he lived in Juarez, he was not active duty National Guard. It's highly unlikely that he was killed for those reasons at all nor that he was over there for those reasons. He was killed because he lived there and his family is there and probably some other reason along those lines.
I cannot think of a single case where a typical American citizen (one with no family ties in Mexico) just went over there as a tourist and got killed. This is still a war over turf between drug trafficking gangs but there is now a lot of street violence like carjackings. I would suspect an average everyday American citizen could be mugged or if driving a certain type of vehicle, could be a victim of a carjacking.
Plus the media doesn't always point out that it's the border areas that are experiencing the break down of law and order that make them especially dangerous, an American going to Mexico City or Oaxaca just faces the same old risks that one faces anywhere they might go.
I totally agree that the vast majority of the violence is on the border cities. But American tourists are very much at risk in these border areas.
Here's an excerpt from a news story regarding the death of American tourist David Hartley, who was killed by Mexican drug cartels while jet skiing with his wife, as well as the beheading of the lead Mexican investigator on the case:
Mexico City – A Mexican police commander investigating the death of American tourist David Hartley in Mexican waters was found murdered on Tuesday, authorities in the border state of Tamaulipas confirmed.
While authorities have not linked the two deaths, the killing of Commander Rolando Flores has fueled specullation that drug traffickers killed Mr. Hartley on Sept. 30 on Falcon Lake near Zapata, Texas. His wife, Tiffany, has said the couple was ambushed by gunmen in boats when the two went jet-skiing into the Mexican side of the border-straddling lake.
Murder of Mexican investigator in Falcon Lake probe reveals drug cartels' reach - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20101013/wl_csm/331705 - broken link)
A lot of Americans don't follow the news and they don't follow British and Indian news sources. The USA media is actually not reporting much on Mexico. More people know more about the latest events regarding Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan than they know about foreign current events.
Even what goes on in Juarez which is right on the border isn't being publicized much in US news media. I'm always surprised how much people in the USA don't know - people who are average in intelligence and education and they have very little clue because their local news never mentions it.
quote]
The point I was making wasn't whether Americans follow British or Indian sources. My point addressed the thread topic that "US contributes to create a bad image of Mexico", specifically that if that is true, then the United States is only one of many countries that do so.
I don't disagree with your point that Americans tend to pay more attention to wasteful topics such as Lindsey Lohan. I do not agree that the US is "actually not reporting much on Mexico." Every time I turn on CNN headline news there is something about the Falcon Lake murder, hostages in Acapulco (or wherever that was), etc. This article was just yesterday posted on msnbc.com: National Guardsman shot dead in Mexico - World news - Americas - Focus on Mexico - msnbc.com
You may be right that most Americans aren't paying attention, but it is not for want of coverage on the issue.
And now another massacre of a bunch of kids at a party in Juarez. Just last night - and what's more, it seems that it was kids in the same age range that did the massacre.
There's certainly no denying the border cities are bad now.
The National Guardsman story is another good example. The news is making it seem almost as though he was shot and killed because he was a National Guardsman and a US citizen. It's reported he lived in Juarez, he was not active duty National Guard. It's highly unlikely that he was killed for those reasons at all nor that he was over there for those reasons. He was killed because he lived there and his family is there and probably some other reason along those lines.
I cannot think of a single case where a typical American citizen (one with no family ties in Mexico) just went over there as a tourist and got killed.
That's not what I got from the story. Was there something in the story specifically that made you think they were suggesting he was targeted or was that just your bias? All I got was they were simply reporting the Texan/American connection much like they do when a plane crashes in some other part of the world and they report that three passengers were Americans. They may pick those three and write a story about them. That doesn't mean they think the other 190 from other countries don't matter or that the plane crashed because there were Americans on board.
BTW, how many American citizens with no family ties are going over to border towns as tourists?
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
Plus the media doesn't always point out that it's the border areas that are experiencing the break down of law and order that make them especially dangerous, an American going to Mexico City or Oaxaca just faces the same old risks that one faces anywhere they might go.
And why is it the media's responsibility to point this out? Whenever a convenience store owner gets shot and killed, as happened here last week, they report about it. They don't feel the need to point out that the majority of people going to convenient stores never encounter problems or that convenient stores are extremely safe on weekday between 8am and 11am.
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Mexico is bad
