[pugboy]

I was wondering if Lakes Erie and Ontario were gaining because of this problem, It seems like it would show up, also is more water falling over the Niagra Falls because of this. I still think that even if the problem isn't a cause of the lake levels dropping it should be fixed if possible. Doing the math is just sitting down with a paper and pencil and doing the work to solve things and understand things.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by toodie

Key word: explains where "MOST" of the .....
You have to admit that the other things add to the problem, though.

And I have, repeatedly.

The billions of gallons of water loss through man-made problems is an extremely high volume. We shouldn't compare the two and then say, well, man is causing less problems than evaporation so all is well, let them continue doing so.

I never said that, or even implied that. While I appreciate your concern for Lakes Michigan and Huron, the main problem is NOT what you are hammering away at. Yes, there are man-made problems that need to be addressed, the sooner the better actually. To concentrate on just those those though is missing the bigger picture and the major problem we need to address as well.

To put my position into perspective let me illustrate what Lake Michigan means to me. I was born in a hospital in Ludington that my Mothers room overlooked Pere Marquette Lake, and Lake Michigan beyond that (Paula Sterns Hospital which is the predecessor to the one we have now). My very first view on the outside World was that view. I was literally brought into this World 49 years ago with a view of Lake Michigan and it has played a big part of my life ever since. I have watched the lake levels recede and bounce back my whole life. I've watched the alewives make it almost impossible to enjoy the shores because of mass die offs, I've watched invasive species come into the system and drastically change "my" lake. I've seen it take friends to their final resting place, I've watch it calm people just because of its beauty. I've seen people cry when they first see it because it is beyond any description they have heard. I doubt there is a handful of people who care about the Lake more than I do, but I am also realistic when it comes to looking at the whole picture and doing so with decades of past experience.

The dredging of the channel deeper and wider time after time needs to stop and I have said that for many, may years; it isn't a new problem it is one that has been ongoing for a generation. The amount the Chicago area is allowed to draw off needs to be addressed as well. Fracking is still an unknown variable. Some say it is a problem, others studies say it isn't; I am not willing to jump on either bandwagon at this point because neither side has compelling evidence yet.

[tjay]

I don't even get what the argument is about. Who cares if most of it is from natural factors or not. The man made factors need to stop regardless. Thank you Toodie for the thread and bringing the man made factors to everyone's attention. That's what the focus should be on.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Bydand

And I have, repeatedly.




I never said that, or even implied that. While I appreciate your concern for Lakes Michigan and Huron, the main problem is NOT what you are hammering away at. Yes, there are man-made problems that need to be addressed, the sooner the better actually. To concentrate on just those those though is missing the bigger picture and the major problem we need to address as well.

To put my position into perspective let me illustrate what Lake Michigan means to me. I was born in a hospital in Ludington that my Mothers room overlooked Pere Marquette Lake, and Lake Michigan beyond that (Paula Sterns Hospital which is the predecessor to the one we have now). My very first view on the outside World was that view. I was literally brought into this World 49 years ago with a view of Lake Michigan and it has played a big part of my life ever since. I have watched the lake levels recede and bounce back my whole life. I've watched the alewives make it almost impossible to enjoy the shores because of mass die offs, I've watched invasive species come into the system and drastically change "my" lake. I've seen it take friends to their final resting place, I've watch it calm people just because of its beauty. I've seen people cry when they first see it because it is beyond any description they have heard. I doubt there is a handful of people who care about the Lake more than I do, but I am also realistic when it comes to looking at the whole picture and doing so with decades of past experience.

The dredging of the channel deeper and wider time after time needs to stop and I have said that for many, may years; it isn't a new problem it is one that has been ongoing for a generation. The amount the Chicago area is allowed to draw off needs to be addressed as well. Fracking is still an unknown variable. Some say it is a problem, others studies say it isn't; I am not willing to jump on either bandwagon at this point because neither side has compelling evidence yet.

I'd really be surprised if fracking or selling water to China is having that large of an impact. You'd have to fill a lot of cargo ships a year (hundreds of thousands?) to equal 2.5 billion gallons of water.

The problem isn't that the dredging in the St Clair River is increasing, it's that the dredging has caused the river to erode tremendously, causing more and more water to pass through every year. The Army Corps has apparently investigated solutions, but hasn't done them. It would involve a lot of infrastructure, probably costing billions.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by pugboy

I was wondering if Lakes Erie and Ontario were gaining because of this problem, It seems like it would show up, also is more water falling over the Niagra Falls because of this. I still think that even if the problem isn't a cause of the lake levels dropping it should be fixed if possible. Doing the math is just sitting down with a paper and pencil and doing the work to solve things and understand things.

According to some of the charts that people have linked to, those two lakes have held steady and have even increased a tad.

[allbusiness]

I tend not to believe anything coming from the mouths of people who subsist on government grants (your money and mine) for their livelihood. They are all too inclined to yell "Crisis!" whenever possible to insure their fuinding continues.

The data show that lake levels rise and fall every 25 years or so -- at least in our recorded history which is just a blink of an eye.

Any little projects we happen do today will never have the kind of impact that the Welland Canal and the St. Lawrence Seaway (and to a lesser extent the Chicago Sanitary and Ship Canal) have had, starting in the 1800s.

We are a bit smarter now. Not much. But a bit
.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by allbusiness

I tend not to believe anything coming from the mouths of people who subsist on government grants (your money and mine) for their livelihood. They are all too inclined to yell "Crisis!" whenever possible to insure their fuinding continues.

The data show that lake levels rise and fall every 25 years or so -- at least in our recorded history which is just a blink of an eye.

Any little projects we happen do today will never have the kind of impact that the Welland Canal and the St. Lawrence Seaway (and to a lesser extent the Chicago Sanitary and Ship Canal) have had, starting in the 1800s.

We are a bit smarter now. Not much. But a bit
.

A bit smarter about....??

Are you looking at the same charts I'm looking at?

[tjay]

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