[malamute]

Originally Posted by upandrunning

The big problem is not that there is no work or base in Michigan. The problem is that that base of some 12 million people was built on a huge industrial auto base. Now that it is dying off, and moving south, the state will need to readjust to fit what it is capable of supporting. This will include a big drop in population to fit the new Michigan. This will put many more homes on the market and keep construction depressed for many years. It is cause many more problems, as support businesses will shrink, as people do not buy as much and there will be less of them to make any purchases. As people leave, schools will get less funding from the federal government which will hurt many school budgets. Michigan is not poised for any come back any time soon. I put a caveat here that any thing can change things. Detroit could come up with some car that is 10k and runs 400 miles on electric only. Some new technology could be built in Michigan on a massive scale and help bring it back. But I do not see this on the horizon any time soon. With out something like this things will only keep going the way they have for the last 3 years. I was called doom and gloom 3 years ago, but I have been proved right.
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]

Part of the problem -- and it's just about everywhere is that far too many houses were built. That was the big housing bubble -- apparently some thought that could go on forever, bring in dirt cheap labor, build subdivisions of McMansions overnight which could be easily bought by anyone with any kind of income or lack of income with subprime loans.

They went way overboard and many houses are going to sit empty until they deteriorate and are torn down.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by malamute

Part of the problem -- and it's just about everywhere is that far too many houses were built. That was the big housing bubble -- apparently some thought that could go on forever, bring in dirt cheap labor, build subdivisions of McMansions overnight which could be easily bought by anyone with any kind of income or lack of income with subprime loans.

They went way overboard and many houses are going to sit empty until they deteriorate and are torn down.

Were too many houses built in a nation where millions of people are homeless or live with their parents or rent out tiny apartments? Perhaps so from an economic standpoint, but falling housing prices will benefit many people (assuming they don't lose their jobs or suffer wage and hour reductions).

I would hope that instead of allowing the houses to sit vacant and deteriorate that the banks and owners would just take their losses and sell the houses for whatever the market will bear. Surely receiving $30,000 for a house that had previously been valued at $150,000 has to be better than receiving $0.

Perhaps it would be good if the state or federal government enacted a law that required banks to sell empty houses within one year or six months of their taking possession of them, forcing them to unload them at the market price and to eat their losses.

[Driller1]

Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn

Were too many houses built in a nation where millions of people are homeless or live with their parents or rent out tiny apartments? Perhaps so from an economic standpoint, but falling housing prices will benefit many people (assuming they don't lose their jobs or suffer wage and hour reductions).

I would hope that instead of allowing the houses to sit vacant and deteriorate that the banks and owners would just take their losses and sell the houses for whatever the market will bear. Surely receiving $30,000 for a house that had previously been valued at $150,000 has to be better than receiving $0.

Perhaps it would be good if the state or federal government enacted a law that required banks to sell empty houses within one year or six months of their taking possession of them, forcing them to unload them at the market price and to eat their losses.

And make our money worth less??? Socialism is always a warm and nice thought.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn

Were too many houses built in a nation where millions of people are homeless or live with their parents or rent out tiny apartments? Perhaps so from an economic standpoint, but falling housing prices will benefit many people (assuming they don't lose their jobs or suffer wage and hour reductions).

I would hope that instead of allowing the houses to sit vacant and deteriorate that the banks and owners would just take their losses and sell the houses for whatever the market will bear. Surely receiving $30,000 for a house that had previously been valued at $150,000 has to be better than receiving $0.

Perhaps it would be good if the state or federal government enacted a law that required banks to sell empty houses within one year or six months of their taking possession of them, forcing them to unload them at the market price and to eat their losses.

I think if the government would stay out of it, the banks would cut their losses and do something like that. With billions of tax payer dollars handed to them however, why should they?

[Bluefly]

UpandRunning keeps talking about auto this and Detroit that, when this forum is on northern Michigan.

1. The Marquette area - while facing the same downturn the rest of the nation/world is facing - has seen no appreciable drop off. It's remained stable and vibrant. Not all of Michigan is that tied to the auto industry. Northern lower is because it's Detroit's playground, but western Michigan (GR, K-zoo) and the UP are not subject to the whims of the auto industry.

2. We live in a society that demands growth for the sake of growth. It's easy to complain when one's relatives in construction struggle for work, but on a larger scale it makes no sense to support such industries without purpose. We depend on construction whether it is in the best interest of the community or not. Even in a place like Detroit, whose city has housing stock for 2 million in a city of under 900,000, we demand to build more just because it keeps people shuffling along doing something - anything. It's primitive. It's time for us to grow up and find a new basis for our economy. (I work in and depend on construction)

3. Upandrunning's overall point is valid. I think Michigan needs to use its industrial base to become the epicenter of innovation for new alternative energy production. Enough with cars. The auto era is ending. People are demanding walkable, mixed use, transit-oriented lifestyles. There is a decided lack of innovation in this culture. It is waiting for the next hand out, be it from corporations or governments. It's time to turn inward and find the ideas for the next industrial revolution.

Also - a lot of peoples' negative impression of Michigan as a whole is due to the media they're fed. Keep that in mind. Most don't even realize the vast beaches / ocean-like vistas that are there.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by Driller1

And make our money worth less??? Socialism is always a warm and nice thought.

How would that devalue the currency? It's not the same as printing money.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

2. We live in a society that demands growth for the sake of growth. It's easy to complain when one's relatives in construction struggle for work, but on a larger scale it makes no sense to support such industries without purpose. We depend on construction whether it is in the best interest of the community or not. Even in a place like Detroit, whose city has housing stock for 2 million in a city of under 900,000, we demand to build more just because it keeps people shuffling along doing something - anything. It's primitive. It's time for us to grow up and find a new basis for our economy. (I work in and depend on construction)

I agree with you about how our society emphasizes "growth for the sake of growth", which implies population growth. It's basically a Ponzi scheme that has to implode at some point.

[Floridahater]

Originally Posted by michmoldman

Amen Bydand!
I'm so sick of people bashing Michigan! we all know it is bad here, and we sure do not need everyone telling us! I'm sick of all the complaining when it gets us nowhere. We know the housing market sucks and there are no jobs, so please stop telling us people! I for one will stay here even if I have to build a cabin out of logs myself and live off the land. I love it here, and will never leave! Oh, and I love the snow so bring it on!

Hey, I am still here in FL, and I would trade the snow for the oppressive heat of this place. MY friends here from Holton Lake are going back. Florida is fine for perhaps a couple of weeks to break the winter, but living here with this relentless heat is awful. Personally, I'll take the log home any day of the week!!

[malamute]

Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn

How would that devalue the currency? It's not the same as printing money.

It's all money that does not exist. It's based on future taxes on future money -- and is must more of the same spend now, worry about paying later mentality that brought all this about.

[Lindseyup67]

[quote=Bluefly;6528577]UpandRunning keeps talking about auto this and Detroit that, when this forum is on northern Michigan.

1. The Marquette area - while facing the same downturn the rest of the nation/world is facing - has seen no appreciable drop off. It's remained stable and vibrant. Not all of Michigan is that tied to the auto industry. Northern lower is because it's Detroit's playground, but western Michigan (GR, K-zoo) and the UP are not subject to the whims of the auto industry.

I beg to differ on this! Marquette has not seeing no appreciable drop off????? What about the imminent mine layoffs, and 3 marquette restaurants closing in the last month or so??? I work at a large retail hardware store, and having worked there for 10 years, I can can honestly say that this year is unbelievably slower than ever before! Our "competition" is doing just as poorly. People are just NOT spending money on home projects, etc. You may want to re think your thoughts on this....