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As a guy who grew up Uptown (before gentrification) and attended Mpls SW, even I think UU spreads it on pretty thick & that her tireless use of this forum & moderator position to promote all things Uptown & Mpls SW has created a lot of resentment. Point blank, it's not a perfect fit for everyone & everything, but it is a great place & school.
That said, I also think GolfGal uses this forum & her moderator position to knock the cities whenever possible and promote her suburban agenda.
What I think is that some people in the burbs think the city is unsafe and the schools are iffy which is why they're in the burbs in the first place. They simply can't believe there's something just as nice or nicer right here in the cities. To me that explains why they're so incredulous when the city schools do well. Frankly is bothers them a bit because they think of themselves as "higher class" than the city dwellers so they think "How can that be?". What they don't understand is that a school like Mpls SW, even without an IB program is every bit as nice as most suburban schools. The kids come from SW Mpls (Along the border of Edina, who no one disputes is a good school), Lake Harriett (super expensive) & Kenwood/Lake of the Isles (where the downtown banking execs and old money families live). These areas & the kids that live in them are actually MORE affluent than most of the suburbs & that's what some folks in the burbs can't grasp, imo.
That said, I also think GolfGal uses this forum & her moderator position to knock the cities whenever possible and promote her suburban agenda.
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Which is weird considering this is a Minneapolis/St. Paul forum. Why is she even posting here? Perhaps she should stick to the general Minnesota forum.
I "promote" southwest Minneapolis and Uptown (and to lesser extent adjacent areas like SLP, Edina, and Richfield, as I also spend a lot of time there, or Marcy-Holmes and other areas around the U) because I know those areas the best. I also frequently recommend other areas when I think it's appropriate, and where I feel like I know enough about the area to at least think it could be the right fit. I think most of us write primarily about the neighborhoods which we know best. Obviously that means we also have a sense of when they won't fit the posters well -- which is why I don't recommend, say, Uptown, when someone is looking for new construction on a new lot. I fail to see why it's a problem to have positive things to say about the locations in which one lives or works. As far as schools, I certainly don't think Southwest is the ONLY game in town -- and have never said such. It comes up a lot because people ask about moving to SW Minneapolis, and want to know about the schools. Same thing with Edina, St. Louis Park, etc. People post about other areas like Woodbury, Chanhassen, etc., but I don't tend to chime in there because I don't have experiences with those schools and don't know any students or teachers there. Obviously this forum works best if we have a good variety of people from all corners of the metro area. I don't talk about Coon Rapids, Blaine, Inver Grove Heights, Long Lake, Maple Grove, or any number of other suburbs because similarly, I don't know them, at least not enough to comment. Just like I don't spend much time trying to bash suburban schools with which I am not familiar. I don't promote them or comment on them either, because I don't know them. I think a lot of people are failing to see the point that not saying "so and so school is great" doesn't mean that one is actively bashing that school. The metro area has a LOT of high schools; I'm sure there are many wonderful high schools and fabulous neighborhoods that don't get as much attention as they deserve on here, probably just because no regular posters know them well. I don't know why anyone would care if I like Uptown or not, or how that could cause "resentment." I don't resent Golfgry al for loving Rosemount (although I do resent her willingness to bash neighborhoods that she's not familiar with) -- I'm happy that she's found a location that she loves. I don't resent Camden Northsider for promoting his neighborhood -- his comments are very helpful, and his knowledge helps everyone. Other posters live in locations like Robbinsdale, Roseville, Powderhorn, Edina, etc. -- all add their own perspectives, whether or not they love or hate their locations, or like most of us, love some things, dislike others. (and not that it matters, but I don't even personally enjoy living in SW Minneapolis, and can definitely see lots of room for improvement in Uptown.)
I also feel that MPS needs some additional boosters because, unlike the suburbs, people make the assumption that ALL city schools must be bad, or ALL suburban schools must be good. It doesn't work either way, and to try to force an entire metro area into such an outdated, out-of-touch model is unhelpful to those who are considering a relocation. There's a wide range of neighborhoods out there, and it would be nice if instead of wasting energies bashing other neighborhoods people could perhaps attempt to help new arrivals find the best fit for them, rather than getting into pointless arguments. Obviously everyone has different tastes and preferences, and what works for one person will not work for everyone else.
By the way, moderators are simply volunteers. We try to enforce the TOS, that's all. We're as entitled to opinions as anyone else. They don't mean any more or any less than any other poster. Like ALL advice, any posts should be taken with a grain of salt, and used as a jumping-off point for further research. Same as the Newsweek list. It's one evaluation tool among many. And that advice goes doubly for evaluating schools -- there are just SO many different factors and needs at play. I am admittedly not very up on school sports, for example, but others (Golfgal among them) are very up on what schools offer what programs, and their relative merits. Similar thing for languages; if you're moving to town and want an excellent Chinese program, not all schools are going to offer it. Or if your child is pretty average, maybe needs a little extra pushing in some areas, probably some schools are going to be better for that than others. The key is always finding the right fit for the right kid, and luckily here in the Twin Cities we have a lot of solid school options, not to mention the open enrollment option as well as affordable private schools.
Last edited by uptown_urbanist; 06-22-2011 at 02:13 PM..
I've criticized this Newsweek ranking in prior years. It has improved somewhat, however it still has deficiencies. (1) No measurement of career earnings of graduates; (2) No evaluation of the quality of the school to which graduates are admitted; (3) No evaluation of the high school experience based on the achievements of non-AP/ IB/ college-bound students.
That latter deficiency causes large suburban and rural high schools to be ranked much lower than they have been in qualititative studies (where schools like New Trier IL consistently rank top ten). Why? Because schools which draw based only on geography (not by an admissions or magnet basis) have a broader set of goals than schools that are designed as urban funnels into math & science diploma mills (as many of Newsweek's top schools are). This ranking conflates narrow polytechnics with full-function public high schools.
Rank the top schools by number of US cabinet officials, or number of Pulitzer Prize winners, or number of Fortune 100 corporate officers, or other more qualitative criteria, and I'd think you'd have a better list of "America's Best High Schools"
It says that they know that the list is bunk. This post was specifically directed at the Minneapolis folks that constantly use this list as a reference for the "great" Minneapolis schools-from previous years where they ONLY showed the results for the students that took the AP or in Minneapolis's case, the IB tests. It doesn't give a clear picture of what schools are really like. This new methodology at least accounts for things that do make schools good-retention rates, college placement rates, etc. As far as what other schools are trying to "hide" the information is all on their websites about test scores, college placements, etc. Based on that information, our school would rank right around where Lakeville North/Century is ranked.
Since you're bringing up last year's methodology and a critique of us regulars touting local IB programs because it was central to Newsweek's methodology in previous years, it's important to note that there have been many OTHER rankings produced by several entities (Business Week, Great Schools, US News) that have come out with lists of the Top IB programs in the nation that factor the percentage of IB test passage rates at schools and/or the percent of students graduating with IB diplomas comparative to the whole student body. I know for a fact that both Henry and SLP Senior High have fairly consistently made these lists in recent years, and on occassion were the only two metro schools that did. Henry High was also designated one of the Top 5 Performing Schools in MN by Great Schools/Business Week (under the category of high-performing schools with significant low-income student population).
Mason- I very much disagree with your assessment of Uptown Urbanist. Yes she talks a lot about the areas she is most familiar with, but her posts are very fair, insightful, knowledgeable, and she does talk about areas that she might not be personally familiar with quite a bit (in both the city cores and suburbs) and she doesn't seem to be on a personal mission to tear down other areas. Plus, speaking from personal experience, it can be very hard to not get "reactionary" on this board in response to a lot of ill-informed, unfair, innaccurate sweeping statements that are frequently made about local urban areas. Sure it might go both ways on ocassion, but there's usually a big difference in tone/feel, etc.
Last edited by Camden Northsider; 06-22-2011 at 03:37 PM..
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laggard
Which is weird considering this is a Minneapolis/St. Paul forum. Why is she even posting here? Perhaps she should stick to the general Minnesota forum.
The forum is about the Twin Cities metro, not just the two core cities.
How could the portion of my post be in line with the mod's point of view when he's been staunchly refuting it? By using the word "haven," I meant Minneapolis as a whole, not a specific service that it provides.
I get the feeling that a couple of passionate posters think that my Kids High school (Anoka as well as other areas) are "O.K.". I disagree.
In the metro area, PARENTS have a major influence on how well their kids do. Nearly all of the schools in this metro area are spending enough to have quality teachers and they all have great options to stretch the high school students (PSEO, IB, Honors, AP). Involved parents can find out and request the better teachers, mandate high performance in grades, give them a lot of complements, find out about programs that can test their talented students, always go to conferences, spend time getting to know the teachers, help them with their homework in their younger years, make sure they are disciplined in studying from day 1, make reading enjoyable etc etc. I can go on and on... But it takes work to be an involved parent.
So it should make sense that passionate parents who did a good job raising their children usually have students that are ranked in the top of the class. If you happen to go to a "better" ranked school in Minnesota, don't give all the credit to where you go. In fact, I don't think it would have made a bit of difference for our two children.
Re: the ranking list. I'll be happy to compare my sons Anoka education with the best high school in the country. I am positive his ACT, IQ, social skills, and well as his accomplishments will help raise their schools rankings. We can agree that the very top schools that were mentioned have more options without the work. But my Kid participated in top notch programs (all paid by others because of his acomplishments) outside of Anoka. If we were not involved we would not have known about them (things like Gopher Business etc). But none of the MN schools offer some of these special programs. All my point is you can go to Anoka and get the same caliber education as those top ranked schools IF you are a heavily involved parent.
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