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Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
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Originally Posted by tijlover
Yes, we all know Denver is isolated, but equally so, is Salt Lake City, Albuquerque, Boise, and to a lesser extent, Atlanta.
Chattanooga is just a hop, skip, and a jump away from Atlanta (118 mi from city center to city center). My wife has a coworker who lives in Chattanooga and commutes to the Atlanta metro.
Other than that, tho, it's a fair distance from Atlanta to other major cities.
If I could be so bold--If you hate this place, why have lived here for 19 years? I know if I hated it, I wouldn't stick around.
I definitely have my issues with some aspects of the Twin Cities, but I'd still rank it highly against any other metro area.
Well, to be fair, I grew up in Minneapolis. I left as soon as I graduated college. I came back, because of some family issues. Now, I've got a girlfriend, good friends I went to high school with, a job I love, and now I'm stuck. I wish I could just transfer my life out of the midwest.
Crappy weather, traffic, high taxes... ugh, this place sucks.
Wow, BarbaraMN, that's a gross and baseless generalization about people not liking the weather because they never go outside. Frankly, when you have a disability that prevents you from driving and you have to take our subpar public transportation everywhere in the winter, and the buses are all 1/2 hour late or don't show up at all because Metro Transit likes to act like they could never have predicted it would snow in MN in December, the weather does start to wear on you. That's fine that you like winter, but that doesn't mean everybody who doesn't is just ignorant and lazy. I had several layers of clothes on the other day and my legs still got frostbitten walking to the bank. And also, because of some upper body issues I have, the weather here is really a problem for me; the cold makes my joints hurt, and I've already fallen four times this year on the ice (once was down all the stairs on those suburban Southwest buses with the really steep stairs) which really messed up the progress I've made through tons of exercise to improve my problems. So yes, if you're lucky you can enjoy winter. But if you're older or have a disability it is a HUGE problem, particularly with the ice on the sidewalks, and Minneapolis is in absolutely no hurry to solve that problem. And it's not that I don't exercise or am lazy -- I swim inside during the winter and do some things at the gym, at least three times a week, usually more.
And the poorer the area, the worse it gets -- take a walk over to Peavey Park and try walking on the sidewalk next to it. Or wait at the bus stop at Nicollet and Lake, where there's a layer of slick ice several inches thick and you sometimes have to hold on to the side of the bus stop just to keep from falling. When that's what you're facing, it's hard to go outside even if you're not disabled, and forget about viewing winter as fun (not to mention that most winter sports require money -- which not all of us have -- for equipment or transportation to someplace where you can hike after dark on a candlelit trail and roast marshmallows). Also, for people with SAD winter here is a HUUUGE problem, and nobody with that type of an issue deserves to be scorned or condescended to just because their experience of winter is less positive.
Another negative I would add to this list is the high income disparity between black and white residents, and the fact that we have one of the highest loan rejection rates for black applicants when compared to white applicants with the same income/history. And the fact that most Minnesotans don't know this or think about it very much is one of the saddest things of all. Diversity in general is an issue here, and what makes it particularly frustrating is that people don't want to discuss it because they're under the impression that such a liberal city couldn't possibly have any race problems.
Finally, I would second the suburbs that are all clones of each other and the difficulty in making friends here as reasons not to move here. Of course, as you know, there are plenty of great things in the Twin Cities as well!
Totally agree. If you cannot drive do not move to the Twin Cities. You will be frustrated to no end. Add in winter snow and cold here and some days you'll feel like punching your fist through a brick wall. Transit service in Mpls is 10x better than in St. Paul and it still sucks.
Subpar transit run by people who have no clue and usually no budget, bus stops covered in 4 feet of snow thanks to the plows, sidewalks that require ice skates to navigate, etc. etc. The bus system is a mess thanks to having 2 downtowns and, ooooh, one LRT line. Big deal. It was built primarily for tourists and some commuters. Northstar? Built for commuters. The Central Corridor? Basically unnecessary but it might get a few more people to take transit rather than drive but I doubt it will make much difference.
I can't drive (bad vision) and only live in the Twin Cities because I grew up in MN and where else in the state is someone who can't drive going to live? I tried living in Duluth, St. Cloud, Brainerd. All even more car dependent, obviously.
Even worse, I eventually moved from Mpls to St. Paul because my job just had to move from downtown to a more "car friendly" location. Those poor suburbanites had to actually pay for parking until we moved. Of course getting to the new work location would've taken 3 buses and 2 hours from Mpls so I moved to St. Paul where bus service is even worse.
Gee, I'd love to go outside in the winter and go skiing, snowmobiling, etc. but it requires a car. Just about everything here requires having a car.
Cars, driving, endless sprawl, whining about traffic, anti-transit attitudes, and 6 months of hard, greasy, gray muck on the cracked, pothole ridden roads. That's the Twin Cities for ya.
I'm at the end of my rope so I'm finally making a big move and moving to Portland. Unlike many non-drviers, I'm lucky that I can transfer there and keep my job. I totally sympathize with other non-drivers here who don't have that luxury. At least when I'm having to wait for a bus in Portland I won't need to scale a mountain of exhaust soaked ice and snow just so the 20 minutes late bus can actually see me before I get frostbite.
I grew up in the northern suburbs of the Twin Cities but spent a lot of time visiting family in Colorado during those years, moved to Denver for 6 years, then moved back to Minnesota (only to be closer to family) a few years ago.
Having lived in both states, I would personally pick Denver, no contest. I prefer the weather, the scenery and the casual and open attitude of Denver to that of Minnesota. Getaways to the mountains are fabulous any time of year. Great camping and hiking and biking. The schools are better overall in Minnesota, but the Jefferson County schools in the Denver area are very good. Commutes are not great in either place, but Denver can be especially frustrating after a big snowfall - the roads are not plowed as they are in Minnesota, but the snow melts off the roads quickly.
Totally agree. If you cannot drive do not move to the Twin Cities. You will be frustrated to no end. Add in winter snow and cold here and some days you'll feel like punching your fist through a brick wall. Transit service in Mpls is 10x better than in St. Paul and it still sucks.
Subpar transit run by people who have no clue and usually no budget, bus stops covered in 4 feet of snow thanks to the plows, sidewalks that require ice skates to navigate, etc. etc. The bus system is a mess thanks to having 2 downtowns and, ooooh, one LRT line. Big deal. It was built primarily for tourists and some commuters. Northstar? Built for commuters. The Central Corridor? Basically unnecessary but it might get a few more people to take transit rather than drive but I doubt it will make much difference.
I can't drive (bad vision) and only live in the Twin Cities because I grew up in MN and where else in the state is someone who can't drive going to live? I tried living in Duluth, St. Cloud, Brainerd. All even more car dependent, obviously.
Even worse, I eventually moved from Mpls to St. Paul because my job just had to move from downtown to a more "car friendly" location. Those poor suburbanites had to actually pay for parking until we moved. Of course getting to the new work location would've taken 3 buses and 2 hours from Mpls so I moved to St. Paul where bus service is even worse.
Gee, I'd love to go outside in the winter and go skiing, snowmobiling, etc. but it requires a car. Just about everything here requires having a car.
Cars, driving, endless sprawl, whining about traffic, anti-transit attitudes, and 6 months of hard, greasy, gray muck on the cracked, pothole ridden roads. That's the Twin Cities for ya.
I'm at the end of my rope so I'm finally making a big move and moving to Portland. Unlike many non-drviers, I'm lucky that I can transfer there and keep my job. I totally sympathize with other non-drivers here who don't have that luxury. At least when I'm having to wait for a bus in Portland I won't need to scale a mountain of exhaust soaked ice and snow just so the 20 minutes late bus can actually see me before I get frostbite.
Maybe you should move out with those poor suburbanites where you would have bus service that would pick you up at your door and drop you off at work on YOUR schedule ?? Seems to make a lot more sense then waiting for a city bus.
Golfgal, I assume you're referring to Metro Mobility? Not anyone (including those with a disability) is eligible for that service; you have to qualify and be unable to use the regular bus. It's a good service, and certainly makes life more livable for people -- at least those few who are eligible -- living in the less public-transit friendly suburbs (and of course the quality of public transportation within the suburbs varies greatly, from the decent to the non-existent) but for most people it's not a solution.
Obviously this particular poster isn't considering moving to the suburbs for better public transportation (and metro mobility is available in the city, too), but I figured I'd throw that information out there in case anyone else is curious and is wondering how they can get door-to-door service. I'm not clear on all the details, but I believe that some of the county-specific options (such as DART in Dakota County) are operated under the same umbrella of the Metro Council and all follow the same rules and fare structures, even though the actual name might be different. Some of them will accept other riders if space allows, but I sure wouldn't base my ability to get to and from work on a shared ride space-contingent policy.
I don't think public transportation in the Twin Cities is too bad, depending on where you live or work, but I would agree that the big decisions do seem to be made by those who don't actually use it, and the money is for the most part going towards attracting new suburban riders and not helping those who already use it. I think that's poor planning in the long run, and the metro area (and its traffic) would be better served by improving public transportation in existing transit-friendly areas and attracting new riders in that way (even in Uptown, a dense neighborhood with lots of bus lines, a large percentage of people choose not to ride the bus) rather than concentrating almost exclusively on suburban commuter rail lines.
No, I am talking about the MVTA bus that comes and picks you up and brings you where ever you want, but of course, there isn't bus service in the suburbs according to the city dwellers .
I lived in downtown Minneapolis for about ten years, and I agree with a lot of what most people are saying here (and I live in Duluth now)...so comparing that with other cities I've been to...let's see what I didn't like about Minneapolis...
1) EVERYONE and their Aunt Libby has a college degree - so you better have a lot of unique experience or a masters if you are seeking a decent job. Twin Cities area has always been promoted as a place to get these great jobs, until you see who else is applying for them, where they went to school and, yep, they too have a college degree.
2) (ties into 1) It's not 'Minnesota Nice' because very few people in Minneapolis are from Minnesota. They graduated from a Big 10 school and are in Minneapolis to score their first or second good job for a couple years until they move back to Seattle/Denver/Kansas City/whatever other metro area they're originally from. At the place I worked at I was the only one who was 'from' Minnesota.
3) Despite the population, it's the same...damn...people....over...and....over....: Being gay makes it a lot different considering we only make up about 2-5% of the male population, but it drove me up the wall when I'd go to a new place that just opened and I'd see the same dozen guys I saw at all the other places that would last for six months and then close. The potential for finding a relationship sounds great because you hear about how progressive and gay friendly Minneapolis is. Only problem is, the gays are definitely not friendly to each other!
4) The art snobs: I'm sorry, but Minneapolis isn't New York or LA - people need to lose the attitude. And that goes for these new apartment-like places that opened downtown or near Warehouse - $925 a month for a studio apartment? Are you serious? Even in Chicago the rents are not that ridiculous. The problem with downtown Minneapolis is that (I could tell) they want to create a 'sense of community' but the way the housing is priced, the only people who get to live there are either very rich (high rise apts or condos) or in absolute despair (the homeless or the people carrying around empty gas cans saying their car broke down etc). There's no middle-of-the-road housing for the people most likely to stick around for a long time - the middle class, blue collar single adults.
5) The (Minneapolis) political system lets certain people get away with murder: City Center and Block E have no shoppers or interested businesses for a REASON - but the political climate, the progressive attitude and people who are stuck in the early 90's politically correct crap won't challenge the people who choose to break the law and do whatever they want - I've been to other large cities where the cops/security just goes up to people and say 'either buy something or get out' and that's what happens - in Minneapolis nobody has a set of balls to say that. They're either afraid of getting sued or they're so scared of people that it's a 'let's just pretend this isn't happening' thing and walk away.
I'm not sure anymore whether these are 'Minneapolis' problems because you could probably say the same thing about Phoenix, Denver, whatever comparable sized city is out there. I think a lot of it depends on how you're feeling about life during the time you're there (a lot of people don't like Duluth because it's pretty much at the end of the line and not a lot goes on here, but my family is here, so I'm a lot happier), you can be living in the most exquisite, comfortable place in the country but not know anyone, still be single after looking for 10 years; you're still basically alone and unhappy...I think these people who move every 2 years because they're in search of a 'better' place are never going to be satisfied until they figure out WHY they need to keep doing this (usually it's them and not the city - that's what 10 years in Minneapolis taught me, anyway)...
Totally agree. If you cannot drive do not move to the Twin Cities. You will be frustrated to no end. Add in winter snow and cold here and some days you'll feel like punching your fist through a brick wall.
I can't drive (bad vision) and only live in the Twin Cities because I grew up in MN and where else in the state is someone who can't drive going to live?
I lived in Mpls. without a car for 10 years (1973-1983) and I share your concerns and desire to find a city where it's easier to live without a car, without going to NYC or Chicago.
Fortunately, LRT systems are popping up all over the country now, to assist people like you.
Portland has a great system in place already, which I've ridden a couple times on visits. And you might want to put Dallas on your list as well, which has one of the most ambitious light rail construction projects underway.
I was just there in Dec. and rode every mile of it. And there's also Atlanta.
And Phoenix's LRT is still in its infancy, with a 21 mile line open. Seattle just opened its first line last Fall. Still in its infancy, as well.
A climate where you can bicycle to work should also be considered. When I lived in Mpls. back in the 70's and 80's there was talk, talk, talk about light rail, it should have been done long, long ago, but better late than never.
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