Do not recommend living in Missouri (St. Louis, Jefferson City: homes, property tax, legal)

[TRex2]

Originally Posted by SciFiNerd1

...
Is that really true that MO has personal property tax on vehicles annually like other states only do for new vehicles one time at the time of purchase?

If it is like AR, the one time sales tax is about 5% and the annual "personal property" tax is something less than 1% so the annual tag plus tax for mine is less than the tag in most states.

Originally Posted by SciFiNerd1

What makes a pension public and private? I would think that pensions through Missouri State Employee Retirement are public while out-of-state pensions are private.
...

The "public" pension would be from any government entity, I think military is included in that.

Private pension is from corporations.

Not sure about public pensions from other states, whether or not Missouri taxes those.

I am in AR, so the laws are similar, but not identical.

[SciFiNerd1]

Originally Posted by MUTGR

Your frequent references to bad state government with knowledge of the state employee retirement system suggests you may be a Democrat which would explain you hating the state government in Missouri.

Well, it may be far from perfect but I'll take it over our blue state neighbor to the east, Illinois, which is flat broke and which turned full police state shut-down, mandate crazy during covid. If that's your cup of tea I can understand why you don't like Missouri.

To me, the problem governments in Missouri are the blue cities, which are crime-ridden, drug-infested, failing schools, etc.

After the covid experience I for one would never consider living in a blue state.

I actually thought about moving to Illinois side of St. Louis Metro outside East St. Louis. I've noticed that jobs pay much better there with slightly lower income tax (flat rate). Illinois also has collective bargaining (unions).

However, the stories coming from Illinois about state government giving MOUs to pay retirement benefits later do not sound good at all. Property taxes are also the second highest after Texas.

I consider myself a moderate but slightly liberal on social issues. The only thing I dislike about MO Politics is Josh Hawley but that is just me. Not trying to start political debate at all.

Speaking of crime, St. Louis County is relatively safe. I agree that City of St. Louis is not safe, especially at night. I cannot speak for Columbia, Kansas City, and other cities in Missouri.

I believe my home state would benefit me in the long run than living in Illinois or nearby states of Arkansas, Kentucky, and Tennessee. They are too much of Deep South for my taste. In other words, Missouri is not perfect but it is in the middle of pack for my taste and my needs.

[Ivory Lee Spurlock]

Originally Posted by sub

Yeah, it's kind of entertaining.

Even if the sales tax is a little high, the mere existence of Kansas City's "e-tax", or the annual personal property tax on things like cars and boats

Property tax on cars? Is that the same as yearly vehicle registration, or in addition to?

[SunGrins]

Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock

Property tax on cars? Is that the same as yearly vehicle registration, or in addition to?

Missourians pay a personal property tax that goes partially to schools, maybe libraries, etc. Cars are taxed as personal property. That is in addition to the registration fee. There are other things included as personal property but I'm not up on what all is included. They used to send put a valuation survey where you had to list cars, trailers, some livestock. I think mobile homes were taxed that way since they were not real estate.

Originally Posted by MUTGR

Your frequent references to bad state government with knowledge of the state employee retirement system suggests you may be a Democrat which would explain you hating the state government in Missouri.

I worked in state government for 30 years, mostly in Jefferson City so I have a good idea of how Missouri government works or fails to work. Much of the blame falls on the members of the General Assembly (AKA the legislature). I worked with legislators on various bills. In the Executive Branch, party affiliation was not such a big deal in my early days. The emphasis was on getting the work done. But it became increasingly toxic in later years. I was likely to vote Democrat in most state elections but not all. I was appointed by two Republican governors to a position but that would never happen now unless required by law. Governors of both parties fell into the partisan trap and the state suffered. Missouri used to have the recognized model court system based on the Nonpartisan Court Plan, but I think other states have followed suit over the years. The idea of nonpartisan selection of Judges was a new idea at the time and a good one. Personally, I think it should be expanded to include Sheriffs and Prosecutors who too often use their elected position simply as a steppingstone for higher office.

Originally Posted by MUTGR

Well, it may be far from perfect but I'll take it over our blue state neighbor to the east, Illinois, which is flat broke and which turned full police state shut-down, mandate crazy during covid. If that's your cup of tea I can understand why you don't like Missouri.

To me, the problem governments in Missouri are the blue cities, which are crime-ridden, drug-infested, failing schools, etc.

After the covid experience I for one would never consider living in a blue state.

That is good, I suppose. I don't care about Illinois, one way or another.

I like Missouri, was born and raised there and lived there for 65 years. It is a beautiful state and I have visited every county. I have family there. I think that Missourians are kinda like the frogs sitting in a pot of hot water (you know the story). They adapt and adapt and adapt and smugly think all is well but if they jump out, they actually see how bad it is, from a distance. The complacency is toxic. The urban/rural divide is toxic and self-defeating. The problems defeating Missouri are more related to that divide than to politics -- not everything is red or blue and there are good people on both sides. By my estimation, most Missouri outstate Republicans are actually Libertarians, but they never figured it out yet.

As far as the title of this thread (Do not recommend living in Missouri), I think that Missouri is not for everyone and they need to seriously examine the plus and minus sides to be sure it is right. There are a lot of variations in different areas.

[TRex2]

Originally Posted by SciFiNerd1

That is very true. It is one of other reasons I am thinking about moving back home. I could not afford to buy a house let alone pay property taxes here in Texas. Texas has people flocking from other states like California, New York, etc. with cash ready upfront from selling their house there to buy a house making it harder for us who are not that fortunate.

I am hearing about Southwest Missouri starting to have people moving from California. That is not good.

How bad it is, depends on where in SW Missouri. (assuming they are simi-conservative) If they move to Branson or Joplin, that isn't so bad, but if they move to small towns 30 miles outside of those cities, they do a lot of damage to the economics (influx of money, similar to gentrifying a neighborhood).

Originally Posted by sub

It’s been going on for a long time now but they seem to be conservative, generally speaking.
The reason California has become solid blue is that they’ve run off those who dare disagree.

There are two aspects of this. One is economic, and depends on where they move to.

The other is that someone who appears red (conservative) in CA can often look pretty "blue" in Missouri.

[SunGrins]

People can be socially conservative and not politically conservative in terms of public services, for example. They may be used to a top flight library where they came from or maybe a good school system. Maybe a better fire department. We hear about the "liberal" outsiders moving in and trying to change things. Sometimes the changes are not so bad, but they cost money. Culture shock can motivate people to try to support what they consider improvements. That is why people really need to do some research before they move in to what they think is a welcoming conservative area.

[TRex2]

Originally Posted by SunGrins

People can be socially conservative and not politically conservative in terms of public services, for example. They may be used to a top flight library where they came from or maybe a good school system. Maybe a better fire department. We hear about the "liberal" outsiders moving in and trying to change things. Sometimes the changes are not so bad, but they cost money. Culture shock can motivate people to try to support what they consider improvements. That is why people really need to do some research before they move in to what they think is a welcoming conservative area.

I agree, except that I am (and a lot of this region is) the mirror image of that.

I am socially libertarian, for the most part (although most of my friends consider me socially liberal).

But most of this region (outside of the cities), including myself, have been trying to fight to keep the region politically, and that means fiscally, conservative. We have a good school, and don't need some Blue Stater to come in here to tell us how to run it, and we have a pretty good fire department (actually does more than I ask of it, but that is a different thread). We don't need concrete sidewalks, the tree roots tend to break them up, anyway. They can keep those things in the big cities.

People who want those things should consider places like Nevada, Michigan or Massachusetts, or at least St Louis.

[mjtinmemphis]

People are going to move where they want. If you don't like it, move on.

If I move to a new city and want to promote better living, I will do so and that is my right.

I hear this all the time from Tennesseans telling California not to change their local politics. Things change as cities grow and a lot of times, places outgrow their politicians. Look at Georgia and North Carolina.

[TRex2]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

People are going to move where they want. If you don't like it, move on.

If I move to a new city and want to promote better living, I will do so and that is my right.

I hear this all the time from Tennesseans telling California not to change their local politics. Things change as cities grow and a lot of times, places outgrow their politicians. Look at Georgia and North Carolina.

We have seen what Leftist Politics can do to states like Georgia and North Carolina.

Do that, outside of a city and you can find out what "a cold day in July" means.

There have been people in this area that found they could go through a whole day and not have a single person say a single thing to them.

[mjtinmemphis]

And do you think they care?