right to work? (Union, Florida, Cave: house, employment, contractor)

[dilly dally]

what will happen to labor wages if missouri becomes a right to work state

[kshe95girl]

um, just look at Florida..... the unemployment rate is over 8% in Marion County....... do you all have the opportunity to vote against it?????
Please do! It has ruined Florida.

[ShadowCaver]

This is a quite complicated ordeal - there is no 'one-size-fits-all' model regarding RTW. What happens in one state, due to its own political, societal, historical, bureaucratic, economical, etc. environment does not always translate to or for another state, even a neighboring state. This study will show this,,,, that study will show that,,, another study will refute some of this yet also part of that... Must also ask if there is any bias in these studies? Unemployment numbers, real take home wages, underlying cost-of-living factors, types of jobs, etc. are all some of the attributes that can be measured, and then used to compare. But still, gotta be careful, due to the above mentioned factors.

Some interesting reading on this:
Texas v. Ohio - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB120450306595906431.html - broken link)
The Wage Penalty of Right-to-Work Laws
Effects of Right to Work Laws on Employees, Unions, and Businesses
MISSOURI̢۪S NON-RIGHT-TO-WORK STATUS (http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cachedxIxr0VMR0J:www.missourieconomy.or g/pdfs/mo_nonrtw.pdf+missouri+%22right+to+work%22+missour i&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&client=firefox-a - broken link)

Me, at the end of the day [well, since I be posting this at ~1am, guess its actually in the middle of the night ], I am in the belief that, overall, RTW results in a positive workplace.

[ucfjtm]

Originally Posted by kshe95girl

um, just look at Florida..... the unemployment rate is over 8% in Marion County....... do you all have the opportunity to vote against it?????
Please do! It has ruined Florida.

Well, I don't believe RTW has anything to do with Florida's unemployment. A more fair comparison is look at what's happened to Michigan or Ohio. Those are non-RTW states and I don't think mandatory union membership has helped employment for those workers who want to maintain jobs in a weakened economy at all.

[jdslady]

As someone who presently lives and works in a RTW state, I hope Missouri will NOT become one.
When you go to work you have to sign a paper stating that you are aware of Arkansas being a
RTW state and that your employer has the option to "terminate" you for basically no reason at all.
The workers have no recourse or rights. Unions??? Don't make me laugh.
I certainly hope that Missouri will remain a non right to work state, especially since we closed
on our house there last Friday and will (hopefully) be living up there before the end of the year.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by ShadowCaver

This is a quite complicated ordeal - there is no 'one-size-fits-all' model regarding RTW. What happens in one state, due to its own political, societal, historical, bureaucratic, economical, etc. environment does not always translate to or for another state, even a neighboring state. This study will show this,,,, that study will show that,,, another study will refute some of this yet also part of that... Must also ask if there is any bias in these studies? Unemployment numbers, real take home wages, underlying cost-of-living factors, types of jobs, etc. are all some of the attributes that can be measured, and then used to compare. But still, gotta be careful, due to the above mentioned factors.

Some interesting reading on this:
Texas v. Ohio - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB120450306595906431.html - broken link)
The Wage Penalty of Right-to-Work Laws
Effects of Right to Work Laws on Employees, Unions, and Businesses
MISSOURI’S NON-RIGHT-TO-WORK STATUS (http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cachedxIxr0VMR0J:www.missourieconomy.or g/pdfs/mo_nonrtw.pdf+missouri+%22right+to+work%22+missour i&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&client=firefox-a - broken link)

Me, at the end of the day [well, since I be posting this at ~1am, guess its actually in the middle of the night ], I am in the belief that, overall, RTW results in a positive workplace.

You make some good points. However, I would suggest a read of the book "Whistling Past Dixie" that makes some insightful points about RTW states, and other issues that have negatively affected southern states. The author, Schaller, is an intellectual who makes many interesting points.

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by jdslady

As someone who presently lives and works in a RTW state, I hope Missouri will NOT become one.
When you go to work you have to sign a paper stating that you are aware of Arkansas being a
RTW state and that your employer has the option to "terminate" you for basically no reason at all.
The workers have no recourse or rights. Unions??? Don't make me laugh.
I certainly hope that Missouri will remain a non right to work state, especially since we closed
on our house there last Friday and will (hopefully) be living up there before the end of the year.

Thank you, thats exactly what I was referring to!!!!!

[ShadowCaver]

Originally Posted by jdslady

As someone who presently lives and works in a RTW state, I hope Missouri will NOT become one. When you go to work you have to sign a paper stating that you are aware of Arkansas being a RTW state and that your employer has the option to "terminate" you for basically no reason at all. The workers have no recourse or rights. Unions??? Don't make me laugh.
I certainly hope that Missouri will remain a non right to work state, especially since we closed on our house there last Friday and will (hopefully) be living up there before the end of the year.

So, and I am just asking, that that is better or worse in a non-RTW state than being forced to join a union to have employment? That no matter your preference, part of your pay will go to a union - one that you may or not agree with? Dunno,,, maybe there is need for a middle-ground area? Me, I just can't stomach the times I've seen well-known inept employees be protected by a union - sometimes at the expense of good workers.

[Inoxkeeper]

RTW is bad regardless if you are pro union or not. It takes away workers rights. I have always said unions were important decades ago when workers had no rights at all, RTW pushes folks closer to those times again.

I hated unions for years as a non union contractor. I almost shut down a new Pepsi plant for opening the crate my applicator was in. I had to have a carpenter to do that even thought I built the crate. I also goofed by plugging the applicator's cord into an 110v outlet, it takes a skilled electrician to pull off that difficult feat!

Having said that I am starting to wonder if unions may soon be a good thing for the US once again. The blue collar guys have been getting bent over for years with all the jobs going offshore. That needs to stop but I don't really see how a union could make any impact.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by Inoxkeeper

RTW is bad regardless if you are pro union or not. It takes away workers rights. I have always said unions were important decades ago when workers had no rights at all, RTW pushes folks closer to those times again.

I hated unions for years as a non union contractor. I almost shut down a new Pepsi plant for opening the crate my applicator was in. I had to have a carpenter to do that even thought I built the crate. I also goofed by plugging the applicator's cord into an 110v outlet, it takes a skilled electrician to pull off that difficult feat!

Having said that I am starting to wonder if unions may soon be a good thing for the US once again. The blue collar guys have been getting bent over for years with all the jobs going offshore. That needs to stop but I don't really see how a union could make any impact.

The book "War On The Middle Class" by Lou Dobbs is a solid read. I like the fact that he is NON-PARTISAN and tells it like it is. The middle class has been hurting for a long time, and the outsourcing of jobs by big corporations continues to be a big issue. IMHO our trade policies need some changing as well as our tariff rates when we import huge quantities of goods from abroad. GM and Ford are now near bankrupcy, and that could mean huge job problems for the US whether you are a huge supporter of the big two or not.