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When you know you're outclassed and outsmarted, you resort to calling me stupid, a troll and you insult me. Grow up and grow a pair. Be a man and make an argument without insulting me, calling me names and questioning my sexuality.
List of up-and-coming boxers:
Gennady Golokvin
Shawn Porter
Ramsey Luna
Marcos Rene Maidana
Jeremiah Graziano
Marcus Johnson
James Bryant
Deontay Wilder
David Lemiuex
Guillermo Rigondeaux
Yuriorkis Gamboa.
I can go for hours...I watch nearly every televised boxing match...
UFC 100, the biggest event of UFC's 2009 still made less than Pacquiao's fights because the gate was much bigger as was the worldwide attention paid to the fights.
In contrast Pacquiao’s bout with Clottey brought in more than fifty thousand fans to the Cowboys Stadium and his bouts with Hatton and and Cotto sold out the MGM and produced live gates that exceeded 8 million dollars.
bravo...just as i imagined, i've never heard of any of those boxers. and with Boxing only have 5 events in the top 10 in the past 2 years, i'de say boxing has a long ways to go in catching up with MMA...and the beautiful thing about that is, MMA is just getting it's feet wet!
sorry for the insults, i didn't know you were so sensitive...but when you compare grappling to two guys having sex, what did you expect?
anywho...best get back to your televised boxing matches, don't want to miss a good nap now do ya??
i dont understand why the boxing appologists have to come to the mma board and try to prove their sport is better. bottom line is both sports are going to be around for a long time. mma is KILLING boxing in PPV. when was the last time someone in boxing not named manny or floyd brought in even a half way decent PPV buy? the rest of the "big names" are not interesting, none a single one of those names mentioned will EVER be manny or floyd. mma is a child in the world of sports, and has a huge amount of room to grow, where as boxing has very little if any. in all reality boxing is on the decline.
there used to be hundreds or maybe thousands in some cities of boxing gyms in every town back in the day, not any longer. people want to learn how to FIGHT not spar, and so they go to a gym/club/dojo they can learn more then just throwing hands. mma gyms are all over, some good some terrible (much like boxing gyms used to be). heck the YMCA used to offer boxing and now here in houston they dont offer it at all.
the reason you guys dont like the ground game is because you know nothing about it, so you think it looks like to guys f***ing or what ever, and yet if you where educated in the sport and understood what was going on you would know that jiu jitsu and wrestling are for more dangerous then boxing or kick boxing. i challenge you both to go to a bjj school or mma gym and take some classes. most will offer AT LEAST a week free. some offer more (several offer a free month here in houston)
if you dont like the ground game then stick to boxing or go watch kickboxing but stay away from mma until you get a mma education.
as for the time limit, STUPID, bottom line. if i am fighting you, and i take you down, trust me i am not trying to **** you, im going to get to a dominant position and either punch you in your face and drop elbows on your nose, or im going to take your arm home with me, or choke you to sleep.
one of our students broke a guys shoulder about a month ago at a jj tourney. not on purpose but it is very easy. i have watched guys go to sleep from chokes so many times i cant count them all. it only takes 7-10 seconds to put you to sleep with a properly applied choke.
As a sports fan who likes seeing all sports succeed, I think this rule would bring a lot of casual fans to the sport (because this guy and myself are clearly not the only ones who dislike the ground game) and it wouldn't really alienate too many die-hards.
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That is why every weekend I watch the boxing matches and ignore the MMA fights. I'm not saying that all MMA fights suck, because some are pretty awesome to watch, but once they start rolling around on the floor, I change the channel.
its called K-1: MMA with no ground game. it exists. it has existed for years. yet, it's not as popular as the UFC because (A) you are wrong and it is only a uneducated minority, plus a few boxing appologists like yourself, who are too stupid to appreciate the ground game; and (B) the best fighters in the world are not there, they're in the UFC, because if you have no ground game you can hardly be considered the best fighter in the world.
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There is a reason why high school wrestling is not popular with spectators, people don't like seeing two men in spandex (or less) trying to get on top of each other. It does look like they are trying to have sex and it's just not entertaining for most people.
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I'm a boxer, so I obviously prefer that (superior) sport, but MMA can be entertaining when the ground game is limited or eliminated altogether.
wow! that's some ego. let me ask you a question. why is boxing "superior" in your mind? is it because you prefer it? or is it because you, at one time or another, have participated in it? boxing, believe it or not, is not just a sport, but it is a form of martial art, and a very powerful form. i would pick a straight boxer to defeat a straight practitioner of tae kwon do, or karate, or kung fu, or most any other form of "traditional martial arts." now, i hate to burst your bubble, but, whether you can except it or not, WRESTLING is the most dominant form of martial art, and clearly, the most advantageous base from which to build a mixed martial arts skill set. i'm not saying that you have to like it, but you better learn to love it, because wrestling (what you call "two guys trying to hump each other," making yourself sound like a complete 12 year old idiot, btw, isnt going anywhere.
here's something for you to consider. you say that you're a boxer. i am a wrestler. i have an ameteur wrestling background that i still use today. i do MMA training about twice per week. i'm 5'9"/210 lbs, fairly low body fat index. i'm 35 years old. i dont know anything about your size (hopefully my size or bigger), age, fitness level, or with what frequency you train, or at what level you would consider your skills. but you have demonstrated that you have no appreciation or respect for wrestling or the ground game. so let me ask you this: do you honestly think you can knock me out before i take you down? hint: it just doesnt happen. so pull your head outta your fourth point of contact, and howabout being a little more respectful.
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If I am watching an MMA match, I want to see a devastating KO, some blood and two men who don't care about their personal safety trying to knock the other one out. I don't want to watch two men roll around on the ground trying to get leverage for 3 minutes, it's just not entertaining.
first of all, if you think that none of us MMA fans have ever watched boxing, youre wrong. so let me just stop you right there if you think youre gonna get away with acting like what youre describing is what you find in boxing - it isnt.
secondly,yeah, Mixed Martial Arts is not what youre looking for, so stop running down the sport. a drunken bar room brawl is obviously what you want to see, so, again you really shouldnt even bother tuning in to UFC programming.
bravo...just as i imagined, i've never heard of any of those boxers. and with Boxing only have 5 events in the top 10 in the past 2 years, i'de say boxing has a long ways to go in catching up with MMA...and the beautiful thing about that is, MMA is just getting it's feet wet!
sorry for the insults, i didn't know you were so sensitive...but when you compare grappling to two guys having sex, what did you expect?
anywho...best get back to your televised boxing matches, don't want to miss a good nap now do ya??
You said name up-and-coming guys, I did.
I can name big names too:
Manny Pacquiao
Floyd Mayweather
Miguel Cotto
Yuri Foreman
Andre Ward
Carl Froch
Juan Manuel Marquez
Shane Mosley
Andre Berto
Zab Judah
Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko
Rocky Juarez
Chris John
Antonio Margarito
Chad Dawson
Need I go on?
I'm not sure what the point of my naming boxers was anyway. You bet me I couldn't without looking them up...I named a couple dozen without really even thinking about it.
And I wasn't the first person who compared two men rolling around on the ground for five minutes to sex. Just type in MMA and Gay in google and you'll get millions of results. I wasn't even the first in this thread.
I love combat sports, but the reason why UFC is slipping (it is, read about it this year) is because most fights are all hype and no fun. Either they are wrestling matches (what's more popular in the Olympics, boxing or wrestling?), or they are simply overhyped products of a marketing machine fighting other corporate-created "prospects". If they simply had men of different styles (boxing, karate, kung-fu, muay thai, jiu jitsu, etc.) fighting until one hit the ground, it would be far more exciting. Let the man get up, and try to knock him down again.
After all, isn't hitting a man while he is down the definition of "fighting dirty"?
[b]its called K-1: MMA with no ground game. it exists. it has existed for years. yet, it's not as popular as the UFC because (A) you are wrong and it is only a uneducated minority, plus a few boxing appologists like yourself, who are too stupid to appreciate the ground game; and (B) the best fighters in the world are not there, they're in the UFC, because if you have no ground game you can hardly be considered the best fighter in the world.
Again, you start to insult me. Calling me stupid right after you spell apologists wrong.
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wow! that's some ego. let me ask you a question. why is boxing "superior" in your mind? is it because you prefer it? or is it because you, at one time or another, have participated in it? boxing, believe it or not, is not just a sport, but it is a form of martial art, and a very powerful form. i would pick a straight boxer to defeat a straight practitioner of tae kwon do, or karate, or kung fu, or most any other form of "traditional martial arts." now, i hate to burst your bubble, but, whether you can except it or not, WRESTLING is the most dominant form of martial art, and clearly, the most advantageous base from which to build a mixed martial arts skill set. i'm not saying that you have to like it, but you better learn to love it, because wrestling (what you call "two guys trying to hump each other," making yourself sound like a complete 12 year old idiot, btw, isnt going anywhere.
Now you're calling me an idiot. More insults.
How is wrestling "the most dominant form of martial art"? Where do you come up with that BS?
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here's something for you to consider. you say that you're a boxer. i am a wrestler. i have an ameteur wrestling background that i still use today. i do MMA training about twice per week. i'm 5'9"/210 lbs, fairly low body fat index. i'm 35 years old. i dont know anything about your size (hopefully my size or bigger), age, fitness level, or with what frequency you train, or at what level you would consider your skills. but you have demonstrated that you have no appreciation or respect for wrestling or the ground game. so let me ask you this: do you honestly think you can knock me out before i take you down? hint: it just doesnt happen. so pull your head outta your fourth point of contact, and howabout being a little more respectful.
I'm actually in shape, so I'm not 5'9" 210! I'm 6' and I box as a welterweight (fighting weight 147, walking around weight around 155) and I think I could KO you just like Ray Mercer KOd the much heavier Tim Sylvia because I'm quick on my feet, my hands are incredibly fast and powerful (boxers, even the weakest ones, can KO anyone with MMA gloves if they get one good punch in) and if you go for my legs, I can just sidestep and throw a punch as you're going down.
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first of all, if you think that none of us MMA fans have ever watched boxing, youre wrong. so let me just stop you right there if you think youre gonna get away with acting like what youre describing is what you find in boxing - it isnt.
I love combat sports, but the reason why UFC is slipping (it is, read about it this year) is because most fights are all hype and no fun. Either they are wrestling matches (what's more popular in the Olympics, boxing or wrestling?), or they are simply overhyped products of a marketing machine fighting other corporate-created "prospects". If they simply had men of different styles (boxing, karate, kung-fu, muay thai, jiu jitsu, etc.) fighting until one hit the ground, it would be far more exciting. Let the man get up, and try to knock him down again.
After all, isn't hitting a man while he is down the definition of "fighting dirty"?
ok so show me the reports that the ufc/mma is slipping? i cant seem to find any. as a mater fo fact the ultimate fighter is showing very high ratings, some of the highest in 2 yrs or so. mma is so slipping that they have shows on spike dedicated to nothing but the ufc, shows on VS dedicated to nothing but wec, and more then 1 show (3-4 shows) on HDnet dedicated to all mma.
if mma is slipping then boxing must have fallen off the hill. just look at how long boxings "the contender" lasted, what like 2 seasons if that much. they tried to compete with TUF and lost. when was the last time you saw boxing on abc, nbc, cbs? sure they have boxing on showtime, and hbo, but then showtime has mma also, and a lot more often and have repeatedly stated that shomma (or what ever they actually call it) is going to be taking more airtime and boxing will be taking less. this is partially due to hbo boxing holding more of a market share then shobox and partially because the mma series have had better ratings then boxing on showtime itself.
i find it funny because you repeatedly talk out of your ass in claiming mma is slipping or boxing is so much bigger and yet you cant back up a single bit of it other then your on personal opinion.
so i ask again, show me the numbers.
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UFC destroyed all the PPV records in 2009: (via Meltzer newsletter)
"... doing an estimated 7,755,000 buys (and given most of the numbers are first estimates, and that the nature of domestic PPV is numbers will usually increase 8-12% from the original estimate, the number could very conceivably approach 8.5 million. Using the 7,755,000 figure, that would mean a $349 million PPV gross. The all-time record for a single company was set last year by UFC of an estimated $283 million. The all-time record for boxing was set in 2007 at $255 million, while the all-time record for pro wrestling was set by WWE in 2001 at $260 million.
"What is most amazing about this is that if it wasn’t for extremely bad luck, that figure would have been significantly higher. Losing the Lesnar vs. Shane Carwin fight from UFC 106 cost the company 500,000 buys, and you could argue more. Losing Quinton Jackson vs. Rashad Evans from UFC 107 cost 300,000 buys, and perhaps more.
"UFC 100, headlined by Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir, ended up as the fourth biggest PPV event in history, trailing only boxing matches with Oscar De La Hoya vs. Floyd Mayweather, Mike Tyson vs. Evander Holyfield and Tyson vs. Lennox Lewis. UFC topped the 500,000 mark six times in its 13 PPV shows of the year, the same number of times as last year."
the only reason boxing has such big single fight numbers is 1) they charge to much for ppv, 2) they hype up the big name fights more then the ufc could dream of.
thats right, your argument is CRAP! like i said get in a gym and see what its about before opening your mouth.
Again, you start to insult me. Calling me stupid right after you spell apologists wrong.
yeah, well, you knew what i meant. and a minor grammatical error doesnt make my statement less true.
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How is wrestling "the most dominant form of martial art"? Where do you come up with that BS?
HA! from years and years of following the sport - just to name ONE source of that knowledge. just because you cannot see past glorious standing knockouts and you do not understand the advantage of being able to control where the goes, as well as controlling your opponents body movement, doesnt mean that you are correct and ALL of the EXPERTS are wrong.
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I'm actually in shape, so I'm not 5'9" 210! I'm 6' and I box as a welterweight (fighting weight 147, walking around weight around 155)
that one wasnt bad - but, like i said, i have a somewhat muscular frame - that's not to say that bulky and muscular is ideal for fighting, but dont just assume that i'm the guy who's gonna gas out in under 2 minutes. plus most people are suprised that i am 210, eyeballing me as about a 185-190.
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and I think I could KO you just like Ray Mercer KOd the much heavier Tim Sylvia
okay, since you want to go there, that was originally supposed to be a straight up boxing match, and Tim Sylvia (who MMA people cant stand btw, because his fights - which were mostly fought standing up - were boring as ****), anyway, as i was saying, Sylvia never went for and was never going to go for a takedown in that fight. also, Mercer was choked out by Kimbo Slice, who is also not well regarded by most MMA fans, because he is basically "not legit" skill wise.
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because I'm quick on my feet, my hands are incredibly fast and powerful (boxers, even the weakest ones, can KO anyone with MMA gloves if they get one good punch in)
you do understand that this is a real fight, or at least a real contest i'm talking here. at 6' and 150 pounds, i take it youre not a "power puncher." if you think i'd be coming at you with my hands down and my chin out, your dreamin'. i'm not even trying to toot my own horn here, but 99 times out of 100, you are not stopping that takedown. is that an absolute? well, no, but c'mon dude...its a fact.
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and if you go for my legs, I can just sidestep and throw a punch as you're going down
obviously, you've never been in the situation of having a wrestler shoot on you. and FYI, i dont have to shoot on your legs in order to take you down.
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??? When did I say that?
when you tried to describe boxing as an exciting world of blood, knockouts, and slow motion flying mouth pieces.
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