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Why is it so important to claim that Egypt, which is not part of sub-Saharan Africa, was Black? All the way to the point where some people even claim Napolean dynamited the nose of the Sphinx in order to obfuscate its ethnicity. Just let it go already.
Why is it so important to claim that Egypt, which is not part of sub-Saharan Africa, was Black? All the way to the point where some people even claim Napolean dynamited the nose of the Sphinx in order to obfuscate its ethnicity. Just let it go already.
Why is it so hard to accurately represent Egyptians as Africans instead of Europeans? Why do you call a "black sub Saharan" with similar features to a northern African as black but don't want to call a Saharan African black even if they are more "black" looking than someone further south? And you must know that Saharan Africa was once tropical. That's where the Egyptians came from. The Sahara dried up and the people migrated to the Nile because it is a water source. Over the course of 10k years they physically adapted from a hot and humid environment to a hot and arid environment. That's why you get Africans with brown skin and narrow noses (dark for sun protection, narrow noses for dry air). Also, I should reemphasize that there are many "middle eastern" looking North Africans that would have been present during the time of the pharaohs but likely not many Europeans around until the time of the Greeks and the Romans.
There are many types of Africans adapted to different types of environments- just the same as you get in Asia and Europe. Also we now don't delineate Southern Europeans as any less "white" than Northern Europeans but we do that for Africans? Swedes and Italians can both be white but an Egyptian and a San/Bushman can't both be black? (This is a San person, if you are not familiar http://www.phototravels.net/namibia/...and-p-22.2.jpg). Why can't you just accept the hypocrisy already?
Location: West Los Angeles and Rancho Palos Verdes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jad2k
Why is it so hard to accurately represent Egyptians as Africans instead of Europeans?
Because the people who migrated across the Mediterranean and established ancient Egypt were Europid. It's fairly obvious, isn't it? And the same can be said of ancient American cultures, as evidenced by the Kennewick and Clovis findings, among others.
Because the people who migrated across the Mediterranean and established ancient Egypt were Europid. It's fairly obvious, isn't it? And the same can be said of ancient American cultures, as evidenced by the Kennewick and Clovis findings, among others.
Lmao!!!!! Nope. They were not. They migrated from other parts Northern Africa as the area became dry...As evident by pretty much any legitimate anthropologist and archeologist will state. Egyptian civilization came from nowhere else other than N. Africa. Stop trying to make them European. That's just dumb.
I should add, if you're going to sit here and argue that Egyptian civilization is the product of Europeans, then you are just as dumb as so called Afrocentrists that try and link Egyptian civilization with places on the other side of the African continent. Egyptians are Africans and indigenous to the region of North and Eastern Africa.
"Why is it so hard to accurately represent Egyptians as Africans instead of Europeans? Why do you call a "black sub Saharan" with similar features to a northern African as black but don't want to call a Saharan African black even if they are more "black" looking than someone further south?"
Because people want to be recognized for what they are. North Africans and East Africans don't want to be lumped with African Americans. AAs have been misinformed about Africa, and those from North and East Africa realize this. Try telling a Puerto Rican that they are black because some Puerto Ricans are black (or any Latino for that matter).
Those images of Egyptians you posted? Well, one of them for sure is take from one of the darkest-skinned part of Egypt way down South, in Luxor. You can easily fill up pages and pages of city-data with light tan images of Egyptians, some with green eyes, etc. Often, you can't tell the difference between an Egyptian and a Palestinian. Are you going to claim them as black too?
As for Italians/other darker Europeans and Swedes/other super white Europeans both being considered white, wow. Have a seat. School time. White people have a wide variety of skin tones, hair colors and eye colors. Just like black people come in thousands of shades! They still consider themselves black.
Yeah, Middle Easterners being considered the same race as regular white people is iffy, I'll give you that. But it's not necessarily incorrect. I just don't think we know for sure. I haven't read any anthropology books. But I do believe that DNA often doesn't match what's on the outside. Take Iranians. Compare images of Iranians and neighboring countries, like Iraqis (who are Arab, obviously). Well, Iranians are considered Aryan. As are many Indians. And their skin is not "lily white".
It's as silly to lump Egyptians with Nigerians or other west Africans just because they are from Africa as it is to lump Syrians with Koreans just because they are both from the continent of Asia.
Being from the same continent is irrelevant. The culture, history and physical characteristics are quite different. Black Americans need to stop the silliness. They aren't connected to Egyptians culturally and never were.
It's as silly to lump Egyptians with Nigerians or other west Africans just because they are from Africa as it is to lump Syrians with Koreans just because they are both from the continent of Asia.
Being from the same continent is irrelevant. The culture, history and physical characteristics are quite different. Black Americans need to stop the silliness. They aren't connected to Egyptians culturally and never were.
"Why is it so hard to accurately represent Egyptians as Africans instead of Europeans? Why do you call a "black sub Saharan" with similar features to a northern African as black but don't want to call a Saharan African black even if they are more "black" looking than someone further south?"
Because people want to be recognized for what they are. North Africans and East Africans don't want to be lumped with African Americans. AAs have been misinformed about Africa, and those from North and East Africa realize this. Try telling a Puerto Rican that they are black because some Puerto Ricans are black (or any Latino for that matter).
Those images of Egyptians you posted? Well, one of them for sure is take from one of the darkest-skinned part of Egypt way down South, in Luxor. You can easily fill up pages and pages of city-data with light tan images of Egyptians, some with green eyes, etc. Often, you can't tell the difference between an Egyptian and a Palestinian. Are you going to claim them as black too?
As for Italians/other darker Europeans and Swedes/other super white Europeans both being considered white, wow. Have a seat. School time. White people have a wide variety of skin tones, hair colors and eye colors. Just like black people come in thousands of shades! They still consider themselves black.
Yeah, Middle Easterners being considered the same race as regular white people is iffy, I'll give you that. But it's not necessarily incorrect. I just don't think we know for sure. I haven't read any anthropology books. But I do believe that DNA often doesn't match what's on the outside. Take Iranians. Compare images of Iranians and neighboring countries, like Iraqis (who are Arab, obviously). Well, Iranians are considered Aryan. As are many Indians. And their skin is not "lily white".
African Americans haven't been misinformed about Africa. But there has been a deliberate attempt to make african civilizations somehow beholden to Europeans. African Americans come largely from west Africa. Egypt didn't have interaction with West Africa. But the issue of whitewashing AEgypt is what's being addressed. Skin tones of Egyptians range from creamy beige to deep mahogany. I'd say the average skin tone is like a coffee + cream complexion- so a light brown. Bankable A list actors that fit into that category are African American. If there were some A list N Africans actors, that would be the most logical casting pick. Middle easterns would also fit the bill, but there aren't any and Ridley didn't want to go with no-names so that's why someone like Halle Berry or Will Smith would be the closest approximation to accurate casting. Hell, even The Rock would be sensible.
The choice of picking images from Luxor was specific. Luxor is in upper Egypt (which is actually in the south of the country). Upper Egypt was the capital of the New Kingdom. The new kingdom was the height of Egyptian power and when these events likely would have taken place. I also was very deliberate in point out there is a gradation of skin tones in Egypt- and both the light ones and dark people are Egyptians. I use dark Egyptians because people seem to think all Egyptians look like Mubarak. Also, there are northern Egyptians that are very dark. Ever see someone from Siwa?
As for white diversity, this is my point about using the term "black" to include indigenous North Africans. "Black" comes in many shades. No issues with understanding white diversity, huge problems applying the same concept to blacks. I can post so many images of Africans that the general population wouldn't know existed. Hell, I'm from a W African ethnic group that "looks" East African. Tons of confusion trying to place my origin. Had an Ethiopian swear I was Ethiopian. Someone braiding my hair asked if I was Somali. Had a Senegalese swear I was Sudanese. Nope, nope, and nope. But there is no point in spitting out ethnic specifics when current racial classifications are checking me off as black.
I've read many anthropology books, it was my major at UVa. While it's not my day job, I have a library full of books that discuss what we are debating. One thing I should point out though, anthropologists are strong in stating that race doesn't even exist. It's a social construct, it doesn't have a biological basis. This is why I argue strongly about labeling some groups as black and others, who look pretty identical, as not black. You have to question why one will socially define one group as black but not another. You can recognize that there is white diversity and Asian diversity but no African diversity. THIS is the question I'm presenting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanhawk
It's as silly to lump Egyptians with Nigerians or other west Africans just because they are from Africa as it is to lump Syrians with Koreans just because they are both from the continent of Asia.
Being from the same continent is irrelevant. The culture, history and physical characteristics are quite different. Black Americans need to stop the silliness. They aren't connected to Egyptians culturally and never were.
Fair enough, jad2k. We don't have to totally see eye to eye to have a respectful discussion. In fact, I don't generally have the energy for heated debates in my old age
One more thing. In regards to race not even existing, I would be a fan of living in a world where that's the general thought. The whole race thing is stupid and exhausting. There is way too much ambiguity in race. And I think there are way too many gaps in our knowledge and lack of evidence to prove many theories.
Location: West Los Angeles and Rancho Palos Verdes
13,583 posts, read 15,662,103 times
Reputation: 14049
Quote:
Originally Posted by jad2k
Lmao!!!!! Nope. They were not. They migrated from other parts Northern Africa as the area became dry...As evident by pretty much any legitimate anthropologist and archeologist will state. Egyptian civilization came from nowhere else other than N. Africa. Stop trying to make them European. That's just dumb.
Came out of the ground, did they, and just happened to have the same mutations as Europids?
How quaint...
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