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I think that is true in any place that is wracked by violence. Unfortunately, it only takes a minority of people to cause violence and unrest serious enough to wreck the lives of the majority who would just like peace.
The social unrest in the United States actually helped trigger the Troubles in Northern Ireland. The Catholics in Northern Ireland, who were a minority, were legally treated as second-class citizens and discriminated against, much as blacks were here in the south. And when they saw how effective Martin Luther King’s nonviolent protests were at ending Jim Crow and getting civil rights laws passed, they adopted the same tactics. That triggered a violent backlash by Protestant paramilitary groups. Eventually the UK government sent troops over to try to quell the violence and protect Catholic neighborhoods. But in 1972 the British troops fired on a peaceful Catholic march that was protesting internment of “troublemakers” without trial, killing 14 people. That outraged the Catholic population of Northern Ireland, support for the Provisional Arm of the Irish Republican Army surged, and the next three decades saw what amounted to continuous low level warfare in Northern Ireland, which eventually spilled over into the UK as well, as the Catholics tried to use force to reunite Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland and drive the British completely out. It was the formation of the European Union, and the joining of the European Union by both the UK and the Republic of Ireland, which laid the foundations for the Good Friday Agreement which ended the The Troubles. As EU citizens, both sides could have what they wanted at the same time, so the fighting became pointless.
Interesting, especially since the UK voted pretty recently to leave the EU. Thanks for the explanation.
Interesting, especially since the UK voted pretty recently to leave the EU. Thanks for the explanation.
And a lot of people are rightly afraid that could re-ignite the Troubles, largely because now there has to be a customs border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland and there is disagreement on where it should be placed. It's currently a sea border between the island of Ireland and the island of Britain - but that leaves some of the Unionist Protestants feeling that they are being cut off from the rest of the UK. But the alternative of making a land border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland would be even worse in terms of logistics, and upset even more people who've become used to freely moving about anywhere on the island without having to cross an international border. It's a conundrum, without any really good solutions at the moment (in part because, since the UK insisted on a hard version of BREXIT, the EU is not in a conciliatory mood regarding relaxing any of their trade regulations). Fingers crossed that a full generation's worth of peace will be enough to keep the Troubles from from happening again!
And a lot of people are rightly afraid that could re-ignite the Troubles, largely because now there has to be a customs border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland and there is disagreement on where it should be placed. It's currently a sea border between the island of Ireland and the island of Britain - but that leaves some of the Unionist Protestants feeling that they are being cut off from the rest of the UK. But the alternative of making a land border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland would be even worse in terms of logistics, and upset even more people who've become used to freely moving about anywhere on the island without having to cross an international border. It's a conundrum, without any really good solutions at the moment (in part because, since the UK insisted on a hard version of BREXIT, the EU is not in a conciliatory mood regarding relaxing any of their trade regulations). Fingers crossed that a full generation's worth of peace will be enough to keep the Troubles from from happening again!
Right on.
I'm a convert to Catholicism, an American, and I'm of Scottish descent, so I am really, truly a mixed bag. Plus - I love all things British. But I totally get this scene from Trainspotting (language alert but dang, I totally get it):
I think that is true in any place that is wracked by violence. Unfortunately, it only takes a minority of people to cause violence and unrest serious enough to wreck the lives of the majority who would just like peace.
The social unrest in the United States actually helped trigger the Troubles in Northern Ireland. The Catholics in Northern Ireland, who were a minority, were legally treated as second-class citizens and discriminated against, much as blacks were here in the south. And when they saw how effective Martin Luther King’s nonviolent protests were at ending Jim Crow and getting civil rights laws passed, they adopted the same tactics. That triggered a violent backlash by Protestant paramilitary groups. Eventually the UK government sent troops over to try to quell the violence and protect Catholic neighborhoods. But in 1972 the British troops fired on a peaceful Catholic march that was protesting internment of “troublemakers” without trial, killing 14 people. That outraged the Catholic population of Northern Ireland, support for the Provisional Arm of the Irish Republican Army surged, and the next three decades saw what amounted to continuous low level warfare in Northern Ireland, which eventually spilled over into the UK as well, as the Catholics tried to use force to reunite Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland and drive the British completely out. It was the formation of the European Union, and the joining of the European Union by both the UK and the Republic of Ireland, which laid the foundations for the Good Friday Agreement which ended the The Troubles. As EU citizens, both sides could have what they wanted at the same time, so the fighting became pointless.
Thank you for the nice summary. I am watching the movie right now on Apple TV and was wondering about the history of the period.
But Life is not always easy & I always see the glass as half full, not empty. Without wanting to spoil it, for those who have not seen it, I agree the ending made me tear up, but also in a good way. They were headed to safety. Any Gran would want her children & GKs safe. It also reminded me of my youth, when we would visit Gran once a year & always cry at departure.
KA, what did you find depressing, was it the tale of civil war & hate, or the personal aspects of family?
In a way it was inspiring, as the late 1960s were a tiem of civil unrest in many places, including USA as people fought for civil rights.
I loved the movie, including how it ended. Judy Dench was superb as always. I knew the religious conflict between the two sects but i did not realize such hatred, i thought it was mostly political between UK and Ireland. But all religious conflicts are also political. It reminded me of the shia sunni conflicts that came later and how they are viewed differently.
I have seen several Irish movies by Ken Loch, such as The wind that shakes the barley. They are all great, fine acting, cinematography. Mostly black and white as well.
I knew the religious conflict between the two sects but i did not realize such hatred, i thought it was mostly political between UK and Ireland.
It is NOT a religious conflict at all. Religion merely serves as an easy identifier: the people descended from the native Irish are predominantly Roman Catholic, while those descended from the Scots who were sent over from Britain to colonize Ireland for the English (as Wales and Scotland had been earlier) were Protestant. To see it as a religious conflict is to misread it; no one was arguing over doctrine. It’s like saying the Indian uprising against the British Raj was a religious conflict, because the British were Christian while the Indians were Hindu, Muslim, and Sikh.
It is NOT a religious conflict at all. Religion merely serves as an easy identifier: the people descended from the native Irish are predominantly Roman Catholic, while those descended from the Scots who were sent over from Britain to colonize Ireland for the English (as Wales and Scotland had been earlier) were Protestant. To see it as a religious conflict is to misread it; no one was arguing over doctrine. It’s like saying the Indian uprising against the British Raj was a religious conflict, because the British were Christian while the Indians were Hindu, Muslim, and Sikh.
Every religious conflict arises from politics and power grab. Yes religion is an easy identifier and in every case it is an error and is used to dehumanize the other. As for the Indian uprising, it is called the Sepoy Mutiny by the Brits, and the First war of Independence by India. The movie however is explicit in showing it as a religious conflict as well as political. Religion always plays a part only to be used as a tool to plant hatred and division. Actual people go about their lives quite well with diversity.
We just watched “Belfast” on demand—and it was worth every penny and more
If I had known how good it was I would have paid the full price when it first started streaming.
It is a movie I know I will watch more than once
It was the best “new” movie we have seen in long time.
I loved the b/w cinematography, a veritable time capsule.
Dame Judy was wonderful as always but the others including the boy playing Buddy were equally good. Ciaran Hinds is always good but gets little recognition—thought his “Pops” was what everyone’s grandpa should be…
Balfy and Dornan show they are not just pretty faces…
And Van Morrison’s music deserves a nomination—
I think it is one of the best soundtracks to fit a particular time/place and fit into the ebb and flow of the movie itself so well…the theme from “High Noon” was spot on as well…
Just terrific to listen to that great music done by an Irishman…
I was worried a little about Branaugh doing justice to “The Boys in the Boat” about the ‘36 US rowing team who won the Gold Medal in front of Hitler in Munich but after seeing how well he managed “Belfast” I am really looking forward to seeing “The Boys in the Boat”. It is a wonderful book about an heroic moment in America’s history—and deserves the best shot at recreating that epic event in all its glory…
It is NOT a religious conflict at all. Religion merely serves as an easy identifier: the people descended from the native Irish are predominantly Roman Catholic, while those descended from the Scots who were sent over from Britain to colonize Ireland for the English (as Wales and Scotland had been earlier) were Protestant. To see it as a religious conflict is to misread it; no one was arguing over doctrine. It’s like saying the Indian uprising against the British Raj was a religious conflict, because the British were Christian while the Indians were Hindu, Muslim, and Sikh.
It was a religious conflict because that was how it divided Northern Ireland—-
Those were the sides people found themselves on—whether they wanted to be or not—whether they were especially religious or not—
because it was basically how the inequality happened—
And a religious caste system evolved…
And despite living side by side for generations, you could see how little understanding about the religions’ practices there was.
It was as meaningless or meaningful as the label of being a Democrat or a Republican today
It was a religious conflict because that was how it divided Northern Ireland—-
Those were the sides people found themselves on—whether they wanted to be or not—whether they were especially religious or not—
because it was basically how the inequality happened—
And a religious caste system evolved…
And despite living side by side for generations, you could see how little understanding about the religions’ practices there was.
It was as meaningless or meaningful as the label of being a Democrat or a Republican today
Also, they SELF IDENTIFIED as either Roman Catholic or Protestant, and THEY made it about religious conflict. So I'd say it was a religious conflict.
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