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I went down there yesterday (thursday) around 3pm and Wall street was completely empty except for people walking through, and there were 4 cops on 4 horses in the center of wall st I guess making sure no demonstrations form there again. Wall St was pretty much closed off, to walk from Broad onto Wall st, u had to walk into a thin sidewalk area with police standing at them.
However there was a little park with hippies and what not sleeping there and holding signs and banging drums and selling stuff. And about 50 police standing around the perimeter of that square looking bored. Looks like Occupy Wall St really died down and has been watered down with other activists with no clearly defined cause. All they know is the economy is bad and corruption has perhaps become the law of the land.
We definetly need stronger demonstrators down there and organized numbers. And I feel that those guys standing around the PATH station with rifles aren't there for terrorism, they're there to create an illusion of terrorism and watch for demonstrators.
This again brings me back to my point that the country needs leadership. It doesn't even need to be effectual leadership, just leadership. Here's my closet confession...
I voted for Obama. I did it because when I heard him speak I thought he had the chance to do something no leader had done since Reagan and you would need to roll back to JFK and then FDR to find someone before that. I thought Obama had the ability to make people believe in America again. I didn't agree with all of his policies, but I knew that the only thing holding America back was an apathetic electorate and people not having faith in the system.
See, the economy is as much about emotion and "feelings" as it is about numbers and productivity. If people believe that things are getting better, they actually have a tendency to get better. So, even though I had actively campaigned for McCain in 2000 and voted for Bush twice, I voted for the man who seemed to have the ability to make people believe. Words are a powerful thing and Obama is a gifted orator. He let me down, but I don't see anyone else who would be any better and that is part of MY frustration.
do you find yourself often questioning where John McCain2000 was in 2007/08? I really wish that guy still existed personally.
dead on about feelings. and i do think that, to some degree, what we see on TV telling us the economy is bad is, at least partially, contributing to a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I've said it on here before, I lost my 6-figure job at the beginning of 2009 and was out of work for about 5 months. My wife was a SAHM with two young children and we found out we were expecting number three shortly after I got laid off. My unemployment benefits paid about 1/3 of my take home salary. Of that HALF went to paying for COBRA as we did not qualify for any other assistance programs. We made the hardest decision of our lives and moved in with my in-laws (we were lucky that our lease expired the month after I got laid off). I never stopped looking for a job and one finally came through, albeit at a significant pay cut. We made a lot of sacrifices, our luxury cars were sold for cheaper cars, we don't take vacations like we used to, we clip coupons and shop smart, there are things we can't afford. We now own our own home and have adjusted well, but if it were not for the safety net of unemployment, we would have been bakrupted and had our credit destroyed.
I think the anecdotes of people living off unemployment are generally tied to young workers without families who can simply hangout at mom and dads or couch surf on their benefits. These are not the majority and I can't imagine anyone with a family and real bills choosing to stay on unemployment when there are job opportunities. I'm sure there are some cases where you have two income earners and kids involved, where it may make financial sense as well, but that again is not the norm.
and i'd like to add that most people who believe that that is the norm have no idea what is required of people who collect unemployment. could it be more strict? sure. but it's not like you sit at home and just collect a check
This point defines how many people view the budget/deficit/spending. I think taxes should be lowered for everyone. Why? I don't trust the government with one cent of my money. And honestly I don't see anything changing in my life time.
to me, this line of thinking equates to giving up. i think government does a lot of things with your money that you may take for granted, because it happens mostly quietly behind the scenes. by saying that, because there is some inefficiencies in government, so we should not have government at all, is saying that i'm too lazy to hold my elected government accountable.
people overlook that WE are government. if you have a representative in congress who is voting for a bunch of bills with pet projects in it, simply because he's getting a little piece of it, and you're staying quiet because you love that new highway he got a piece of for you, then you're just as guilty. go out, vote for new people, and tell them what you want.
pay attention to other races, contact the candidates, and let them know how you feel.
until you see places where there are little controls and regulations over things like handling of food, handling of chemicals and pollution, handling of shady finance transactions, etc...i don't think you really understand all the things that are going on day-to-day in government to help us enjoy the freedoms we can enjoy every day. it could always be better. that's the change you should fight for.
There were discrepancies hence the program funding being put on hold, and why aren't there any signs protesting Ron Pelosi's company receiving over 700 million in bailout money? Why are the Democrats intent on destroying the coal industry and putting all this money into solar? is it because they, their family and their friends have money invested in solar energy?
maybe it is. but i don't believe so. most people who are for progressing to the future energy production that will obviously take over in the future want it because they want to be free from pollution that causes multiple diseases and medical problems. they want to be free from being tied politically to specific areas of the world for our daily lives to be able to go on.
hate to break it to you, but even if every bit of energy consumed in America was renewable, there would still be plenty big market for our coal industry. so there's no destroying the coal industry. just look at how much coal the northwest region exports to asia.
Obviously I knew my families situation, and I have no doubt the person I spoke to a few weeks ago was being truthful.
and you think that is the norm? not the exception? you think people report in, with their latest status and interviews, attend the meetings, etc., all to live a nice cushy life on, at best, $1,600/month? that's about equal to $12/hr. and you only get that much if you made at least that much. most people getting that made far more than that. and very few dual-income houses could all of a sudden afford to live on 1 income plus a fraction of their second income.
sorry, but unless you should be statistics of evidence of majority abuse, unemployment is a great program that protects our society from continueing to sprial downwards. it should be controlled tightly, but like anything in any type of business, a certain level of fraud/abuse is going to be tolerated. that's how it works in private enterprise too.
do you find yourself often questioning where John McCain2000 was in 2007/08? I really wish that guy still existed personally.
dead on about feelings. and i do think that, to some degree, what we see on TV telling us the economy is bad is, at least partially, contributing to a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I absolutely found myself questioning what happened to the McCain of 2000 when the past election rolled around. The only thing I can come back to is that there was no way a Republican Party corrupted by the fringe elements was going to put up a candidate that didn't espouse all of their "values". That led to McCain trying to pander to the base to get elected, picking Palin as a running mate, etc. McCain sold out for his chance and it ultimately doomed him when it came time for the independents to vote. The machine that motivated the conservative base to come out and vote for Bush was simply beaten by the machine that Obama put together.
Closet confession number 2...I really wish Hillary had won the primary in 2008 or would consider running against Obama in 2012, I probably would have voted for her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp
and i'd like to add that most people who believe that that is the norm have no idea what is required of people who collect unemployment. could it be more strict? sure. but it's not like you sit at home and just collect a check
When I collected it was really easy. I went online hit a couple buttons and my benefits were direct deposited in my account. Now, it is much harder. My SIL is unemployed and she has to jump through a lot of hoops to get her benefits.
The issue as I see it isn't that unemployment benefits are bad, they do provide a vital safety net. There is some abuse and we could do better with managing them. Personally, I'd love to see people on unemployment doing some kind of civil service or receiving job training, or even being loaned out to companies as temp workers.
have you been to a protest? i think you want to believe they are a bunch of regular democrats who know a little to a lot about politics and various issues and have well thought out opinions. what they really are is a bunch of pot smoking losers with nothing better to do. attacking the protestors isnt to attack democrat principles (not that i wouldnt attack those also but they arent the same people).
to me, this line of thinking equates to giving up.
I actually don't disagree. I have given up. As a lot of people have. Short of a revolution I can't see anything changing in any meaningful way and that cure would be worse than the disease.
NJ Goat, there are 1 or 2 things that you say that I can agree with, compromise isn't 1 of them though. When you have a Government that keeps spending more then what comes in, whose solution is to just keep printing money and throwing money at the problem, and if you're serious in getting finances in order, there is no compromise, you either do it or you don't.
OK, the fact that you use the word "Tea Bagger" tells me you may not be what you portray yourself to be. It's a derogatory term that was inadvertently used by someone on the right at the beginning of the movement who didn't realize what the term actually was, and it was a term hijacked by the left and used as a put down. Also add to my suspicions the term "Evangelical crap". Now are you really a fiscal conservative and social moderate? or is that how you're just trying to portray yourself on a message board?
Ad hominem and talking points attacks aside, I trust people more with their money than I trust the Government, and no 1 has a right to tell someone what they should or shouldn't earn, and it takes a lot of nerve to say that people will only do what's in their own best self interest, and that's not up to you to decide what is or isn't in someone's best interest.
I'm 1 of MANY people who keep food banks going, both in my town and in my Church. I have Faith in my fellow man. People on the left jump on Dick Cheney all the time, but in 2005 he and his wife donated 78% of their income to Charity, the Gore's donated 0.18%. Maybe Democrats do what's in their own self-interest.
you obviously haven't been on City-data very long if you don't know the general message of NJGOAT's posts. you can poke him for saying Tea Bagger if you want, but how's using that term any different than the right calling it "Obamacare"?
why is compromise bad? that's exactly what a our government is founded on. That's exactly how a Republic is supposed to operate.
what government is it that you refer to that spends more than it takes in, always? what time period are we discussing, and who, specifically, do you hold responsible for the policies?
what is it that you refer to as "printing money", and what situations are we "throwing money at the problem"?
no one is telling anyone what they should or should not earn. government/society tells people what they need to pay in taxes, and because we use a progressive tax code, that increases as you enter higher brackets. you can still earn as much as you please, but to drive a productive economy that will allow growth, you do pay higher taxes on higher earnings. this has helped us build one of the greatest nations in the world. it has helped us grow as a country. it has positioned us in the world as a leader. it has helped give us a standard of living that is not available everywhere. would you like to see those policies removed, and revert back to a society that is more in line with some monarchies?
why does it take nerve to say someone will only do what is in their own self interest? it's not a huge outrageous claim. in fact, it's the key argument used in displaying why the various flavors of socialism tried throughout history cannot work.
where is your evidence for this Cheney 78% and Gore 0.18%? and how much time did each devote to causes? remember - donating money is easy, and doesn't cost someone very much sacrafice. donating time is what actually costs someone. but that's a different topic.
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become the law of the land.
