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It is so much easier to "hate" when the faces are fuzzy, isn't it? Isn't that what Hitler thought too? To dehumanize Jews so much they could not be seen as real people....
I don't disagree with your point about victims stories needing to be heard; all I am saying is that creating victims of a different sort on the other side of the divide is no better.....
Yes, bring on the faces, all of them. Remember when we speak about ALL policies that there are real people (legally born Americans and otherwise) in contention and then make up your mind.
It is so much easier to "hate" when the faces are fuzzy, isn't it? Isn't that what Hitler thought too? To dehumanize Jews so much they could not be seen as real people....
I don't disagree with your point about victims stories needing to be heard; all I am saying is that creating victims of a different sort on the other side of the divide is no better.....
Yes, bring on the faces, all of them. Remember when we speak about ALL policies that there are real people (legally born Americans and otherwise) in contention and then make up your mind.
thats uncalled for, no one is saying they deserve the fate of the Holocaust just need to go home
It is so much easier to "hate" when the faces are fuzzy, isn't it? Isn't that what Hitler thought too? To dehumanize Jews so much they could not be seen as real people....
I don't disagree with your point about victims stories needing to be heard; all I am saying is that creating victims of a different sort on the other side of the divide is no better.....
Yes, bring on the faces, all of them. Remember when we speak about ALL policies that there are real people (legally born Americans and otherwise) in contention and then make up your mind.
So now I "hate" and I am a Nazi because I care more about poor Americans than illegal lawbreakers? Because I want the law enforced. That is right from the OBL playbook and very typical. I am surprised the race card was not thrown in too.
Illegal aliens are not victims and I will never view them as such. They make a conscious decision to break the law and abuse the laws to their advantage. That harms Americans and I as an American have the right to be outraged over that. There are plenty of people in America and around the world who are extremely poor and choose not to break the law.
There is nothing "fuzzy" about it. Illegal = Illegal = Illegal.
thats uncalled for, no one is saying they deserve the fate of the Holocaust just need to go home
no no no, not trying to inflame---sorry! I was not saying that in the least! I was just pointing out that when humans do harm to other humans (whether its mass murder or otherwise---and God knows we all know how to harm each other creatively, don't we?) it is usually better JUSTIFIED when you don't humanize the other side! All I was trying to do and still trying to do is to say before we bathe ourselves in righteous indignation about illegals TRY and remember that 1) they are real human beings worthy of dignity and respect and 2)until we have walked in similar shoes we don't always know the whole story.
Look, for me, meeting Marisol and doing some of the work I am talking about was VERY eye opening. I adore my parents but they are very hugely anti illegal immigrants. They don't speak to an uncle of mine who came in the country that way. I have had the opportunity to see a side of that we don't often see---the migrant class, who are hard working but under represented in the media and whose voices are not always heard. My little contribution to this discussion was meant to do that....
Very sorry if it came across as though I was trying to compare it to Hitler. I did want to shock some into some intrspective thinking, for sure, but I was absolutely NOT making a direct comparison.
So now I "hate" and I am a Nazi because I care more about poor Americans than illegal lawbreakers? Because I want the law enforced. That is right from the OBL playbook and very typical. I am surprised the race card was not thrown in too.
Illegal aliens are not victims and I will never view them as such. They make a conscious decision to break the law and abuse the laws to their advantage. That harms Americans and I as an American have the right to be outraged over that. There are plenty of people in America and around the world who are extremely poor and choose not to break the law.
There is nothing "fuzzy" about it. Illegal = Illegal = Illegal.
and human suffering=human suffering=human suffering.
It's all smoke and mirrors people-I feel the need to resurrect an old post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfish740
Here's my take on the illegal immigration problem. In plain and simple terms, illegal immigration is just another example of the middle class being screwed from within. These people come here for one reason. Jobs. If no one hired them THEY WOULDN'T COME HERE!!! You can deport them, raid their homes, and arrest them, but as long as there are jobs to be had and money to be made, they will keep coming. Businesses decided long ago that it was better for them to pay slave wages and no benefits to illegal immigrants rather than American workers. As a result the American worker can't possibly compete for low/no skill positions. We've been hit with a double whammy. Corporations large enough to move overseas outsourced practically all manufacturing jobs, and we all know where the computer/phone based jobs have gone/are going. Smaller businesses that couldn't be outsourced (Your local construction company, landscaper, or TGI Fridays can't exactly pick up and move to China or India), began to hire people who were quite simply willing to work for less. Also, I really don't want to hear "But I didn't know they were illegal! They fooled me!" That argument holds about as much water as the loan officer who approved a $500K mortgage for a guy who listed his occupation as "McDonalds Drive-Thru" and his salary as $100K.
I find that the most simple analogy to describe this is to picture a broken flaming natural gas main in the middle of the street. You can spray water on the flame to make it smaller all you want-unless you shut off the gas you're never going to put it out. The supply of jobs NEEDS to be cut off. People that hire these workers need to be fined out of business to send a message to anyone else doing the same. These guys need to suck it up and pay an American worker an American wage, plain and simple.
Some have said in this thread that they don't patronize businesses that employ illegal immigrants. At this point that's about as easy as buying products that are made in the U.S. Just because you go to a restaurant and don't see people with tawny skin in the dining room doesn't mean they aren't there. Likewise, just because there are people of Hispanic descent working there doesn't mean they're illegal either. However, wherever you go, illegal immigrants are there. They wash the dishes, bus the tables, take out the trash, etc... Stayed in a hotel lately? An illegal immigrant likely cleaned your room. Bought any kind of produce that requires picking? Guess who picked it? Did you shop in any kind of store? You can bet that there are one or two there.
Let me be clear and say that I'm not "feeling sorry for them," and I don't advocate allowing this to continue. I advocate what the government is afraid to do-go after the people that hire them. A lot of folks take the angle that this is about preserving U.S. sovereignty, etc...which to me is a lot of jingoistic crap bordering on white supremacist crap. This is about businesses large AND small screwing the American worker.
So that's it right there-what can states and counties do? Fine the living hell out of the businesses. Will they do that? Of course not. Why? Because people are too distracted by the illegal aliens themselves and/or are simply fooling themselves that American business people have actually created the problem, are profiting from it, and will continue to do so as long as the government looks the other way. As I said recently in another post, the free market determines all things. Desire for cheap labor + neighboring country of poor people + government refusal to prosecute those who desire cheap labor = illegal immigration. Plain and simple.
I'd like to hear from the illegal alien crowd...anyone, anyone...bueller, bueller?
Aww...our little "peanut gallery"..our "lone soldier" : )) I'm observing..staying out of this one as last time it took 3 weeks for the headache to clear from banging my head against the wall ; )
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