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Old 02-15-2012, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Ft Garland, Co
62 posts, read 251,835 times
Reputation: 46

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Hawaiiseeker, a big thing this man's video is missing is saving on gas. As opposed to composting human refuse and using a fertilizer it is better served by composting for the methane it will produce naturally. Methane is an odorless gas with the same BTU rating as propane and is as safe to use as propane but you can make it yourself to supplement your propane use.Most folks think methane is useless since they see it being simply burned off at water treatment plants and dumps but many are catching on to the fact that it is energy and are starting to actually use it. I just thought I would pitch that in for your consideration.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:42 AM
 
Location: 5,400 feet
4,862 posts, read 4,799,658 times
Reputation: 7952
Quote:
Originally Posted by w8qf View Post
Hawaiiseeker, a big thing this man's video is missing is saving on gas. As opposed to composting human refuse and using a fertilizer it is better served by composting for the methane it will produce naturally. Methane is an odorless gas with the same BTU rating as propane and is as safe to use as propane but you can make it yourself to supplement your propane use.Most folks think methane is useless since they see it being simply burned off at water treatment plants and dumps but many are catching on to the fact that it is energy and are starting to actually use it. I just thought I would pitch that in for your consideration.
Actually, the BTU content of methane is roughly half that of propane. That is why appliances using natural gas (generally 80-82% methane) need different orifices from those using propane.
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Ft Garland, Co
62 posts, read 251,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiminnm View Post
Actually, the BTU content of methane is roughly half that of propane. That is why appliances using natural gas (generally 80-82% methane) need different orifices from those using propane.
You might be interested to know that natural gas burns much hotter than propane my friend with fuel oil having the highest BTU rating of commonly used heating fuels. I am very aware of the purpose of the orifices on appliances and furnaces. The purpose of those fittings is to regulate pressure. Propane is stored at a much higher pressure than natural gas. I owned and operated an appliance business for many years.
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Ft Garland, Co
62 posts, read 251,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiminnm View Post
Actually, the BTU content of methane is roughly half that of propane. That is why appliances using natural gas (generally 80-82% methane) need different orifices from those using propane.
The BTU/b rating of propane is 19,630, the BTU/b rating of methane is 21.433 which is slightly lower than natural gas at 22,000 BTU/b. I offer this to substantiate my last post on the subject not to start an argument which I will nor participate in. I value greatly anyone's input on off grid living where we can share experiences and ideas.

Methane can be produced at home, at no cost. The idea of off grid living is to be free of dependency of commercial interest and environmentally friendly in doing so. Wood is also a sustainable fuel source for both heating, and transportation.

It should also be considered that adobe block construction can be very affordable in New Mexico since optimal soil for making adobe is every where here. One can make their own block and even the stucco coating but it is a lot of work. However, if you're not allergic to hard work you can truly say you built your home dirt cheap.
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:03 PM
N8!
 
2,408 posts, read 5,305,887 times
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Methane is a ozone destroying greenhouse gas, and burning wood produces more pollutants/toxins than a coal fired power plant.
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Abu Al-Qurq
3,689 posts, read 9,182,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8! View Post
Methane is a ozone destroying greenhouse gas,
Source? Methane has very little impact on the ozone layer, and in fact, encourages ground-level ozone formation (smog). It is definitely a greenhouse gas, but it has little to do with destruction of ozone. Dichlorodifluoromethane (R12), on the other hand..

Quote:
and burning wood produces more pollutants/toxins than a coal fired power plant.
There are a lot of things wrong with that statement. As long as something replaces the wood (i.e. not just clear cut forest) and the wood is burned efficiently (wood stove and not a fireplace or fire pit) the consensus is that woodburning is better.
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Old 02-15-2012, 02:06 PM
N8!
 
2,408 posts, read 5,305,887 times
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Via the EPA:

Methane is about 21 times more powerful at warming the atmosphere than carbon dioxide (CO2) by weight. Methane's chemical lifetime in the atmosphere is approximately 12 years. Methane’s relatively short atmospheric lifetime, coupled with its potency as a greenhouse gas, makes it a candidate for mitigating global warming over the near-term (i.e., next 25 years or so).

More: http://www.genomeweb.com/europe-laun...es-and-methane

Wood:
EHHI :: The Health Effects of Wood Smoke
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Old 02-15-2012, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Abu Al-Qurq
3,689 posts, read 9,182,108 times
Reputation: 2991
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8! View Post
Via the EPA:

Methane is about 21 times more powerful at warming the atmosphere than carbon dioxide (CO2) by weight. Methane's chemical lifetime in the atmosphere is approximately 12 years. Methane’s relatively short atmospheric lifetime, coupled with its potency as a greenhouse gas, makes it a candidate for mitigating global warming over the near-term (i.e., next 25 years or so).

More: Europe Launches $10.1M Study of Cow Stomach Microbiomes and Methane | GenomeWeb Daily News | GenomeWeb
Try reading my post again. You're just reinforcing my point, which is it is a greenhouse gas and it does not destroy ozone.

Didn't say wood smoke wasn't bad, just that it wasn't worse than coal. Your reference doesn't even mention coal.
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Old 02-15-2012, 03:15 PM
N8!
 
2,408 posts, read 5,305,887 times
Reputation: 4236
I'm a victim of man-made global warming propaganda.

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Old 02-16-2012, 05:53 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,768,722 times
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FWIW - Wood can also be "cooked" in a reducing atmosphere and produce a burnable smoke/gas that can fuel a gas engine. The resulting charcoal is also combustible. The same can be done with coal if you have an accessible seam on your property.

If I were considering living in this way I would use an old school Listeroid Diesel running on salvaged cooking oil or tallow to generate both electricity and heat. These engines may be modified to run on natural gas or propane but I would have to check. Mostly they run as Diesels on any oil that is thin enough to inject and clean enough not to clog.
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