Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
today with cell phone records,charge cards and ez-pass they can prove your lying in a heartbeat
Under no circumstance can a insurance company request the above records. This is a civil matter. Only in a criminal investigation can these records be subpoenaed by the authorities, not a private entity. For residency they can ask you for utility bills, phone bill, lease and or deed, bank account. Maybe or maybe not even ask for a tax return.
Last edited by modsquad81; 10-18-2010 at 09:41 AM..
You can show you intend to establish permanent residency in your new state by:
Registering to vote in your new state
Registering your car with the Department of Motor Vehicles in your new state
Changing your driver's license to your new state
Purchasing property in your new state, and moving your household to the new property
Applying for any property tax exemption or other special privilege the law allows you because your home in your new state is now your primary residence
Sending your children to school in your new state
Moving your primary bank accounts to your new state
Having your membership in any social or business organizations changed to chapters or groups in your new state
Unlike residency requirements, say for a stabilized apartment in NYC, the IRS does not look for time spent (like the requirement of 183 days).
You could be in PA for one day to establish residency. Hell not even a day.
Better check again, your missing some lines from the tax code in your quote: time spent is a big factor.. dont confuse permanent residency with principal residence ,they are different , i can establish residency anywhere i have property.,,,,your auto insurer has different rules, they go by primary residence and where you spend the most time as well as tax implications are based on primary residence.
the cell phone records etc all come into play if the state investigates your tax situation.
from the IRS Regulations under I.R.C. Section
121.
PRINCIPAL RESIDENCE.
In the case of a taxpayer using more than one property as a residence, whether property is used by the taxpayer as the taxpayer’s principal residence depends upon all the facts and circumstances.
If a taxpayer alternates between 2 properties, using each as a residence for successive periods of time, the property that the taxpayer uses a majority of the time during the year ordinarily will be considered the taxpayer’s principal residence.
In addition to the taxpayer’s use of the property, relevant factors in determining a taxpayer’s principal residence, include, but are not limited to:
(i) The taxpayer’s place of employment;
(ii) The principal place of abode of the taxpayer’s family members;
(iii) The address listed on the taxpayer’s federal and state tax returns, driver’s license, automobile registration, and voter registration card;
(iv) The taxpayer’s mailing address for bills and correspondence;
(v) The location of the taxpayer’s banks; and
(vi) The location of religious organizations and recreational clubs with which the taxpayer is affiliated.
NEW YORK STATE :
New York state deems you a resident if you own a “permanent place of abode” there for more than 11 months and are present in the state for more than 183 days (including part days) during the year. New York City follows the same rules. (“In transit” days -- for example, using New York airports -- are excluded from the in-state day count.)
thats why they can supena records and easily prove where you are..
popular things effected by principal residency and not permenant residency are :
taxes
auto insurance
the capital gains exclusion on your primary residence
mortgages are different for primary residences vs a 2nd home,.....
Last edited by mathjak107; 10-18-2010 at 11:23 AM..
from the IRS Regulations under I.R.C. Section
121.
PRINCIPAL RESIDENCE.
In the case of a taxpayer using more than one property as a residence, whether property is used by the taxpayer as the taxpayer’s principal residence depends upon all the facts and circumstances.
If a taxpayer alternates between 2 properties, using each as a residence for successive periods of time, the property that the taxpayer uses a majority of the time during the year ordinarily will be considered the taxpayer’s principal residence.
In addition to the taxpayer’s use of the property, relevant factors in determining a taxpayer’s principal residence, include, but are not limited to:
(i) The taxpayer’s place of employment;
(ii) The principal place of abode of the taxpayer’s family members;
(iii) The address listed on the taxpayer’s federal and state tax returns, driver’s license, automobile registration, and voter registration card;
(iv) The taxpayer’s mailing address for bills and correspondence;
(v) The location of the taxpayer’s banks; and
(vi) The location of religious organizations and recreational clubs with which the taxpayer is affiliated.
NEW YORK STATE :
New York state deems you a resident if you own a “permanent place of abode” there for more than 11 months and are present in the state for more than 183 days (including part days) during the year. New York City follows the same rules. (“In transit” days -- for example, using New York airports -- are excluded from the in-state day count.)
thats why they can supena records and easily prove where you are..
popular things effected by principal residency and not permenant residency are :
taxes
auto insurance
the capital gains exclusion on your primary residence
mortgages are different for primary residences vs a 2nd home,.....
I see no definition of "principal" or "permanent" residency in section 121. Can you provide a link? It could be my stupidity.
Who knows in NYS or NYC if I've spent 183 days in the city? I know of no mechanism in the City or State that passively, conclusively and legally records my location. Landlords who need to prove non-residency for people abusing the stabilization laws will spend thousands on private detectives and even then it's a crap shoot. Under what circumstance, as I said before, with no evidence of a criminal act, would the state or city expend money and manpower on behalf of an private entity to help them collect a debt, deny a claim or cancel a policy?
Quote:
thats why they can supena records and easily prove where you are..
"Who" can subpoena what "records"? Only a Court has that power with evidence offered by the DA or similar entity of an actual crime
No, it appears like that at first glance, but it's actually neither $10 nor $100. I just went through the process and it was $65 for me.
Um, Why is it $65 to get a piece of ID from the state? Think about it; what are they really doing for you? Okay, they've got to employ the lovely people of the DMV; but what else? In Florida, it is like $25-35. I guess New York doesn't think it's wasting quite enough money, so it needs to collect more in order to waste more...ah, the Empire State
I see no definition of "principal" or "permanent" residency in section 121. Can you provide a link? It could be my stupidity.
Who knows in NYS or NYC if I've spent 183 days in the city? I know of no mechanism in the City or State that passively, conclusively and legally records my location. Landlords who need to prove non-residency for people abusing the stabilization laws will spend thousands on private detectives and even then it's a crap shoot. Under what circumstance, as I said before, with no evidence of a criminal act, would the state or city expend money and manpower on behalf of an private entity to help them collect a debt, deny a claim or cancel a policy?
"Who" can subpoena what "records"? Only a Court has that power with evidence offered by the DA or similar entity of an actual crime
typically what happens is the auto insurer has reason to bellieve your principal residence is not where you say so they send a letter volunterily requesting you to provide proof that what you call your principal residence is indeed where you spend the majority of your time.
if you decline as you have a right to they can bring charges of insurance fraud and have the court supena the cell phone,ez-pass and charge card transactions. new york state and pa love to do tax audits as well on those that work in other states but claim another state as home. they have no problem getting you to provide records. they just did this in pa about 6 months ago. a storefront was busted for selling new yorkers an address to use to register and insure their cars at..
they requested thousands of insured to provide documentation of primary residence. those that were innocent had no problem doing it.
by the way heres an excerpt from my own auto insurance policy in definitions." Garaging Location
A garaging location is the place you primarily park your vehicle when you're not using it,this is your primary residence"
Last edited by mathjak107; 10-18-2010 at 05:36 PM..
Um, Why is it $65 to get a piece of ID from the state? Think about it; what are they really doing for you? Okay, they've got to employ the lovely people of the DMV; but what else? In Florida, it is like $25-35. I guess New York doesn't think it's wasting quite enough money, so it needs to collect more in order to waste more...ah, the Empire State
I agree. I was also quite annoyed because the website makes it seem like it's just $10, but yeah, it's not.
lets see if i can explain it so we can all follow.
if you move from new jersey as an example to new york and new york will be your new home then you need to establish residency. new york gives you 10 days to turn in your drivers license and get a new york state license. you can then register your car and get insurance... you then change your banking over,your mail etc... that establishes new york as your permanent residency.
it dosent make new york for tax purposes that year your primary residence until your here 183 days or the majority of your time.
now if you moved here today and we have roughly 2 months left to the year where ever you spent the most time or 183 days will be your principal residence for tax purposes. in this case your principal residence is in new jersey this year... once you spend 183 days or the majority of your time in ny then ny is your principal residence.
now lets take the person with two homes ,like us... we have a home in nyc and a home in pa. we can establish mail, bank accounts etc at either one. we can get a drivers licence at either one , but our insurance has to be by principal residence or where we spend the most time if we have 2 homes or where we will have our principal residency eventually if you have 1 home.
if you lie ,thats fraud.....
as far as where in the tax code does it say it? dont even waste time going thru pages of tax code,its right on your ny state tax form where it asks you how many days you spent out of state and how many days in state then it gives you instructions for how to handle your part time residency. anything over 183 makes new york your principal residence
where your principal residence ends up determines which home gets special capital gains treatment, your mortgage rates, loans on principal residences are less then the home thats deemed a 2nd home ,voting,drivers license and insurance..
Last edited by mathjak107; 10-18-2010 at 05:40 PM..
if you want to rumage thru the tax code its here, this is from the irs website.:
The meaning of the term “principal residence” under § 121 is found in Treas. Reg.
' 1.121-1. Specifically, § 1.121-1(b) provides a facts-and-circumstances test for
determining (1) whether property is used by the taxpayer as the taxpayer’s residence
and (2) which property, if more than one is being used as the taxpayer’s residence, is
the taxpayer’s principal residence. Section 1.121-1(b) provides, in part, as follows:
(b) Residence - (1) In general. Whether property is used by the taxpayer as
the taxpayer's residence depends upon all the facts and circumstances. A
property used by the taxpayer as the taxpayer's residence may include a
houseboat, a house trailer, or the house or apartment that the taxpayer is
entitled to occupy as a tenant-stockholder in a cooperative housing
corporation. Property used by the taxpayer as the taxpayer's residence does
not include personal property that is not a fixture under local law
(2) Principal residence. In the case of a taxpayer using more than one
property as a residence, whether property is used by the taxpayer as the
taxpayer's principal residence depends upon all the facts and circumstances.
If a taxpayer alternates between 2 properties, using each as a residence for
successive periods of time, the property that the taxpayer uses a majority of
the time during the year ordinarily will be considered the taxpayer's principal
residence. In addition to the taxpayer's use of the property, relevant factors
in determining a taxpayer's principal residence, include, but are not limited to:
(i) The taxpayer’s place of employment;
(ii) The principal place of abode of the taxpayer’s family members;
(iii) The address listed on the taxpayer’s federal and state tax returns,
driver’s license, automobile registration, and voter registration card;
(iv) The taxpayer's mailing address for bills and correspondence;
(v) The location of the taxpayer's banks; and
(vi) The location of religious organizations and recreational clubs with
which the taxpayer is affiliated
i think we have to now go back and look at the op's origional question ...
in summary if he moves to nyc and has no other home in another state he has to turn his out of state drivers licence in within 30 days of moving here. PA is 10 days . so thats the first law he would be breaking.
the state he is moving from usually has a time frame on changes of address too. if i move to pa i also have to let new york know within 10 days i changed address. if i moved to pa they will void my license.the state he is moving from im sure would have a similiar law.
by keeping his out of state licence and claiming residency in a state he no longer lives in thats breaking the law.
if he had a car and kept his out of state licence that would be insurance fraud.
its amazing how something so simple as trying to keep your old license can grow into so many violations.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
