Do you think NY's "specialized" high schools are "racist"? (New York: best school, living in)

[Harlem resident]

Oh, and, the idea that each race "specializes" in something is absurd.

[AllenDullesMJ12]

If everything was culture all of humanity would just be banging each others heads with rocks. It took actual intellect to pursue higher endeavors and that required a brain suited for math and science. Some civilizations were able to succeed with that. Others, like the African groups were more specialized in music and rhythms. Today a lot of the popular music around the world has some influence from African beats.

[goldengrain]

Originally Posted by AllenDullesMJ12

I think culture is 50% of the controlling factor, the other 50% is heredity/genetics and leadership. One example of this is Steve Jobs; his biological father was an entrepreneur and biological sister was a successful author. Meanwhile his stepparents who raised him since he was a baby were regular folk who didn't specialize in any field.
Jobs ended up taking after his biological relatives in that sense, and perused his intellectual interests by his own will. He did not need prep school, tutors, or special programs to give him what his stepparents couldn't.

I am not as successful as Jobs by any means, but I have advanced degrees and a successful life and one parent did not finish high school and the other, grammar. Sometimes a kid succeeds in spite of the parents. Sometimes a parent says do as I say and not as I did. Sometimes a kid is instructed to listen and obey the teacher and pay attention in school and if you don't get something, ask questions. Sometimes it is just a parent who wants a kid to succeed. My parents did little of that, by the way.

[Harlem resident]

Originally Posted by AllenDullesMJ12

If everything was culture all of humanity would just be banging each others heads with rocks. It took actual intellect to pursue higher endeavors and that required a brain suited for math and science. Some civilizations were able to succeed with that. Others, like the African groups were more specialized in music and rhythms. Today a lot of the popular music around the world has some influence from African beats.

This is simply untrue. All brains are potentially suited to mathematics and science. All brains can be competent in those areas.
Those are the facts.

[leoliu]

Good point.
I know that most Asian and Caucasian parents had a lot of input behind their childrens' grades. For immigrant Asian parents, if they are educated themselves, they spend a lot of time tutoring their children and follow up closely with their school progress. If they are unable to tutor, they pay for their children to go to weekend and holiday schools. Asian students were not born with good grades, but they earn those through hard work and a strong belief in education. It does not help to only notice the disparity between groups of children and ignore the parental input behind.

Originally Posted by Andez

Nah. I'm hispanic, poor and grew up in a low-income neighborhood and went to a middle school that was on the SURR list (school under review and registration or something like that) and I managed to get into Brooklyn Tech. Of course, Stuyvesant is a good 80 points higher than the Tech cutoff score but I wasn't too far from the Stuyvesant cutoff.

Anyways, this isn't racist. It has more to do with how the parents educate the children. Many chinese students that live in my neighborhood face the same struggles, same crappy schools and same low income but many manage to get in. Why? Saturday school and the strictness of their parents.

[AllenDullesMJ12]

Originally Posted by Harlem resident

This is simply untrue. All brains are potentially suited to mathematics and science. All brains can be competent in those areas.
Those are the facts.

They are backed up by what evidence?

In terms of numbers, there has never been any black genius counterpart to Newton, Leonardo, Archimedes, Sun Tzu, or even any anonymous individuals that engineered things since ancient times. A lot of mathematics and science has been developed in East Asia, India, Middle East prior to any European nations, yet the vast majority of Africa has never really contributed in those fields for thousands of years.

[goldengrain]

I think Asians have tiger moms and that is a heavy influence for success.
We are losing so many jobs to other countries, partially because their people will work cheaply, but again because the education and ethic is better.

This may be not applicable, but in the Asian cultures (religion) there is encouragement to sit and meditate. I think this enables the children to sit quietly and concentrate on things like learning. Cultures that encourage kids to a lot of physical activity may be at a disadvantage?

[leoliu]

Originally Posted by goldengrain

I think Asians have tiger moms and that is a heavy influence for success.
We are losing so many jobs to other countries, partially because their people will work cheaply, but again because the education and ethic is better.

This may be not applicable, but in the Asian cultures (religion) there is encouragement to sit and meditate. I think this enables the children to sit quietly and concentrate on things like learning. Cultures that encourage kids to a lot of physical activity may be at a disadvantage?

Do not equal booksmart with success.

The higher performance at school among Asian students may well be related to the pressure from non- asain culture settings in the us and the hard-working nature in Asian culture in addition to their beliefs in education.

Back in the Asia continent, you see a lot of low achieving Asians that equal to what you see among aa and hispanics here. Again, poor parental input and help to be blamed. Some kids are born with good motivation and self-descipline, but most kids, regardless of race, need external push and pressure to make best use of their potential. So hoW pushy the Parents are, within a reasonable limit, accounts for a good part of the performance gap.

The IQ factor has a minor influence. An old Chinese saying has it that diligence can make up for the shortage of inteligence, and this has been proven right by their thousand years of civilization.

[checkmatechamp13]

Originally Posted by julzsjp

For the 2010 academic year, the student body at Stuy was approximately 69.3% Asian and 25.7% Caucasian, 1.7% African American and 2.9% Hispanic.

The city's population in 2010 was 33% white (non-Hispanic), 23% black (non-Hispanic), 13% Asian. Hispanics of any race represented 29% of the population. (I am also Asian.)

Therefore statistics show that although 52% of New Yorkers are black and Hispanic and pay taxes for the public education system, only 4.6% of the students at Stuyvesant High School are black and Hispanic.

I'd like to point out that Whites tend to be older on average, so the composition of NYC's school system is different. Private schools may have more Whites, but the composition of NYC's public school system has even more Hispanics and Blacks (and slightly more Asians). See here: Student Demographics by Ethnicity - All Boroughs — Hunter College

As far as taxpayers go, that is irrelevant (and I doubt Blacks and Hispanics pay 52% of the taxes. It's likely far less)

I don't feel the system is racist: If you take the test and pass, you're in, regardless of your race or ethnicity.

I'd like to give a personal anecdote (See how I show off my intelligence with these big words ): I'm Hispanic and passed the SHSAT (Specialized High School Admissions Test). However, the travel time was long and my parents felt I'd be better off going to my zoned school, where I am currently in an honors class.

I have some friends who attend the school (including one Hispanic girl on my block) and the impression they give me is that it's basically just like my honors class, except the entire school is like that.

So if a Black or Hispanic student is intelligent, they might not be able to get into a specialized high school (because it's based solely on the SHSAT scores), but they will be able to get into a decent program at another school.

Part of the issue is that Whites tend to have access to more educational resources. Some of my friends took courses to prepare for the SHSAT that cost $800. Meanwhile, I didn't (though I did have the opportunity to take a free course, but that isn't offered at most schools so if you can't afford it, you have to work that much harder to study on your own). However, I felt I was sufficiently prepared (which is why I didn't even take the free course) and scored higher than 2 out of my 3 friends who had taken the $800 course (I got the exact same score as the third one).

Ultimately, what it came down to was that, ever since I was a young child, I enjoyed learning (though I didn't enjoy school, just the learning process). I had a library card since I was 4 years old and always asked my mother to bring me there. I would read about various topics that interested me: Mostly different animals, space, dinosaurs.

So ultimately, it was the fact that I was motivated to learn, even though I didn't have as many resources as some others did that allowed me to perform well on the test (I got a 572, which was high enough to qualify for any specialized school). Throughout my life, I've been known as an intelligent child, and that definitely has helped me build a good foundation that makes learning easier for me.

Originally Posted by celticvisa

No. Usain Bolt has been running his whole life and I never run.

But if you did train, you'd have a decent shot at winning. It all comes down to how motivated you are even when you're fighting an uphill battle.

Originally Posted by Kefir King

I see that the location of Stuyvesant, Chambers Street, immediately North of Battery Park City and roughly nestled between the Finanacial District, Tribeca and the West Village with lovely views of the Hudson River.
Any guess of the demographics of the mile or two surrounding the school? I'm sure the demographics are far closer to the demographics of the school than that of NYC as a whole.
That demographic area DOES include Chinatown.

Students travel from across the city to reach Stuyvesant. It isn't a local school that draws from the immediate area (in fact, neither are a lot of Manhattan schools, but all of the specialized high schools accept students from all over NYC)

Originally Posted by blackconverse

I also find it interesting that... In this city of 1.1 million public school students, about 40 percent are Hispanic, 32 percent are black, 14 percent are Asian and 14 percent white.

and
The city's population in 2010 was 33% white (non-Hispanic), 23% black (non-Hispanic), 13% Asian. Hispanics of any race represented 29% of the population.

Well, minorities tend to have more children, and therefore a younger population. Also, as they tend to be poorer, they are more likely to send their children to public schools than Whites.

[Kefir King]

There is only one question that must be answered:
DO the tests properly measure intelligence and the likelihood to do well in an advanced environment or do they NOT.

All else is background noise.