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Way too much thought is being put into this artificial boundary.
The area north of Flushing or East Williamsburg is experiencing significant gentrification. The area north of Myrtle to a lesser extent. Once you go south of that point, it's barely noticeable.
What matters here is this. The entirety of Bushwick/East Williamsburg is located on some valuable real estate.
Yes, its a short train ride to Manhattan. There are a lot of architecture, design, film, and other creative industry firms in neighborhoods like Chelsea, Midtown South, the Union Square area, etc. So these people can take the L or the M trains in from Bushwick. Also, its not that far away from schools like NYU, New School, so you'll have some students living there. Also, for that matter, you've various creative businesses in Williamsburg as well, which is even closer.
Well, regardless of where you want to place the East Williamsburg/Bushwick line--and by the way, when I lived over there I personally thought of the start of Bushwick as Bushwick Ave, agreeing with what a previous poster mentioned--rents and home prices are definitely going up.
But in some cases it's pretty astounding...I can imagine the Jefferson/Dekalb area eventually becoming nice, but I just can't see the Montrose stop ever getting much better. Like I said, I lived off of it from 2000-2010; during that time, I definitely saw the ethnic make up of the neighborhood change, as more hipsters and white kids moved in. But that influx didn't affect that area the same way as other areas of Williamsburg...no new restaurants/services opened up, the "ugliness" of the neighborhood stayed. It *did* get a lot cleaner, I'll say that...but I was just down on Graham Ave near Debevoise the other day, and I was astounded at how nothing had changed on Graham at all. Same businesses, everything was the same pretty much as when I moved there in 2000.
The Morgan Ave stop probably has more potential to change--as it's mostly industrial over there--but I still think that area's really sketchy.
Jefferson/Dekalb have a lot more upside, I almost considered buying over there--in the end I decided the prices were over inflated for what you got, and the upside to southern Bed Stuy/Stuy Heights was much better.
Well, regardless of where you want to place the East Williamsburg/Bushwick line--and by the way, when I lived over there I personally thought of the start of Bushwick as Bushwick Ave, agreeing with what a previous poster mentioned--rents and home prices are definitely going up.
But in some cases it's pretty astounding...I can imagine the Jefferson/Dekalb area eventually becoming nice, but I just can't see the Montrose stop ever getting much better. Like I said, I lived off of it from 2000-2010; during that time, I definitely saw the ethnic make up of the neighborhood change, as more hipsters and white kids moved in. But that influx didn't affect that area the same way as other areas of Williamsburg...no new restaurants/services opened up, the "ugliness" of the neighborhood stayed. It *did* get a lot cleaner, I'll say that...but I was just down on Graham Ave near Debevoise the other day, and I was astounded at how nothing had changed on Graham at all. Same businesses, everything was the same pretty much as when I moved there in 2000.
The Morgan Ave stop probably has more potential to change--as it's mostly industrial over there--but I still think that area's really sketchy.
Jefferson/Dekalb have a lot more upside, I almost considered buying over there--in the end I decided the prices were over inflated for what you got, and the upside to southern Bed Stuy/Stuy Heights was much better.
And this is exactly why I stated that Bushwick will not change much more over time... That is the beginning of Bushwick (Not Montrose or Morgan, but I see your points about those areas)... I too thought that there was a lot of potential along the Jefferson and especially DeKalb ave L lines due to the fact that there is a lot of foot traffic in an area that has improved significantly in the last 5 years... Also, for what it's worth, DeKalb ave in Bushwick along the Ridgewood border is and has always been the best part of that area... Mainly poor working class immigrant families just trying to get by... Originally, when the Hispanics came it was Puerto Ricans and Dominicans, then just Dominicans and now recently Mexicans/Ecuadorians and to a smaller extent Indian/Chinese... The problem along the Jefferson line specifically however is that since these real estate agents have overblown that area so dramatically, the prices really aren't worth it just as you mentioned... Whether it is to buy or to rent, the only people moving into that area that can afford it now will continue to be section 8 people or broke as hell hipsters who want to live in gritty Bushwick but will roommate 4 or 5 in an apartment...
How will that ever equate to significant change... Other areas changed gradually because there wasn't this effort to manufacture false change... they let it happen slowly on its own... therefore the prices didn't go from $500 one year to an average of $2000 the next with relatively little change...
Sobro mentioned this a few times that there are a number of former Bushwick hipsters that moved into Mott Haven for that same reason... The areas are probably not much different in terms of demographics and QOL, but the rents in Mott Haven are a fraction of what real estate agents and owners are asking for along those borderlines... I can't say this enough... Don't believe the hype... There's a reason why there has been this need to make the distinction between East Williamsburg and Bushwick... Personally, I wish the census would be done every 5 years... In 2015, when people see that the white population in Bushwick will have probably gone from 9% in 2010 to maybe 13% in 2015 with about half that being first generation poor eastern Europeans and broke long term natives that never made the move... only then will they realize that the changes they were discussing were actually Williamsburg changes and not Bushwick changes... Only then will they realize that shows like Witches of Bushwick and Girls have as much to do with Bushwick as Sex and the City had with NYC in general back in the 90s... There was no comparison...
WyckoffHeights.org did a survey of Q1 2013 building applications for Bushwick and Ridgewood. The highest concentration was the area between Flushing, Broadway, Wilson and Gates. Not the area north of Flushing ave considered to be part of East Williamsburg. Mentioned that construction would be limited north of Flushing ave due to zoning, so I guess it is forcing construction south of Flushing ave. Hopefully for all income levels.
WyckoffHeights.org did a survey of Q1 2013 building applications for Bushwick and Ridgewood. The highest concentration was the area between Flushing, Broadway, Wilson and Gates. Not the area north of Flushing ave considered to be part of East Williamsburg. Mentioned that construction would be limited north of Flushing ave due to zoning, so I guess it is forcing construction south of Flushing ave. Hopefully for all income levels.
That's because there still isn't much out there along the East Williamsburg side due to it still being a largely industrial area... To those looking for relatively cheap apartments, whether it be newcomers or long time natives it's still the spot to go to... It's still cheaper than Ridgewood as I've mentioned and since the area has improved, old timers that I've seen, mainly PR families and some DR families have moved back into that side of Bushwick... It isn't just the newcomers taking advantage of the cheap rents... Honestly though, all of the old timers moving back into Bushwick are good honest hard working mainly Hispanic families that are contributing to the changes in Bushwick... As usual, the story being told isn't what it should be... As i'm assuming it has been with areas in Harlem and Bed-stuy, the biggest change in QOL has been the fact that the majority of the people replacing the former trouble makers mainly Nuyoricans and ghetto Black and Dominicans, are working/middle class PR/DR and Black families as well as the incoming poor/working class Mexican and Ecuadorian immigrant families who invest in the neighborhood and create new businesses...
Unfortunately, these people always take a back seat to the relatively small amount of hipsters that congregate in certain small sections of the area and only create businesses for their own kind most of the time... Example, (try going into tandem on Jefferson ave being a black or Hispanic person... hell, try to be even be a native white New Yorker (Italian/Irish but Brooklyn bred) and see the looks that you get going in there... It's enough to make you feel as if we're back in the 60s...
That's because there still isn't much out there along the East Williamsburg side due to it still being a largely industrial area... To those looking for relatively cheap apartments, whether it be newcomers or long time natives it's still the spot to go to... It's still cheaper than Ridgewood as I've mentioned and since the area has improved, old timers that I've seen, mainly PR families and some DR families have moved back into that side of Bushwick... It isn't just the newcomers taking advantage of the cheap rents... Honestly though, all of the old timers moving back into Bushwick are good honest hard working mainly Hispanic families that are contributing to the changes in Bushwick... As usual, the story being told isn't what it should be... As i'm assuming it has been with areas in Harlem and Bed-stuy, the biggest change in QOL has been the fact that the majority of the people replacing the former trouble makers mainly Nuyoricans and ghetto Black and Dominicans, are working/middle class PR/DR and Black families as well as the incoming poor/working class Mexican and Ecuadorian immigrant families who invest in the neighborhood and create new businesses...
Unfortunately, these people always take a back seat to the relatively small amount of hipsters that congregate in certain small sections of the area and only create businesses for their own kind most of the time... Example, (try going into tandem on Jefferson ave being a black or Hispanic person... hell, try to be even be a native white New Yorker (Italian/Irish but Brooklyn bred) and see the looks that you get going in there... It's enough to make you feel as if we're back in the 60s...
That was probably written by an ignorant ahole hipster who is "accepting" of all races and says how dare the government keep the black and Spanish man down... and yet they have all types of stereotypes for every single ethnicity in this wonderful city... @ G-dale I am now almost convinced you are the first official transplant to move to Glendale... Congratulations...
That was probably written by an ignorant ahole hipster who is "accepting" of all races and says how dare the government keep the black and Spanish man down... and yet they have all types of stereotypes for every single ethnicity in this wonderful city... @ G-dale I am now almost convinced you are the first official transplant to move to Glendale... Congratulations...
Thanks. Although I live in Ridgewood, from Glendale, grew up in Maspeth, pops is from Bushwick, his pops was from ENY, and never lived outside NYC, I'm fine with being a transplant.
Thanks. Although I live in Ridgewood, from Glendale, grew up in Maspeth, pops is from Bushwick, his pops was from ENY, and never lived outside NYC, I'm fine with being a transplant.
The fact that you had to give me your whole family history up to three generations back only confirms for me your need of self-acceptance... very typical of a transplant trait... Give it up my man... No native New Yorker in Glendale reads the garbage that is the Bushwick daily... The inquirer is slightly more reliable...
The fact that you had to give me your whole family history up to three generations back only confirms for me your need of self-acceptance... very typical of a transplant trait... Give it up my man... No native New Yorker in Glendale reads the garbage that is the Bushwick daily... The inquirer is slightly more reliable...
Just trying to promote Bushwick as the next place to be. What a lovely place for transplants. No need to pay Manhattan prices anymore. So why is it that Flushing ave is the border again? Other than just telling people that it is?
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