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What I don't understand is how some suburban communities can attract poorer residents when these areas are expensive? Summit is a very affluent community and has very high taxes. How can they afford to live there?
Some wealthier areas have pockets that are more affordable. If you plopped them here in NYC, they would be considered average neighborhoods, but relative to the wealthier sections of that village/town/whatever, they're poorer. (If there's townhouses instead of single-family detached homes, or if there's a flood plain or a highway nearby, that might be a way for people to get into that area "on the cheap")
All it said is that poverty increased. If one poor family lives in a town, and another poor family moves in, the number of poor families just doubled.
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Originally Posted by Henna
Do the communities where the poor are moving have bus service? How are people getting around? I would think that it would be cheaper to live in a city with public transit vs an area where you have to own a car to get to work even if the rent is slightly higher in the urban area.
Depends on the specific area. Cities like Newark & Paterson have bus service that's comparable to the bus service we have in NYC. Other areas like Plainfield & Perth Amboy that are smaller cities are generally hubs for bus service to surrounding areas, but the service runs infrequently. (Some might run every hour, others every half hour). And then some areas might just have one or two lines running every hour.
Its been a national trend for there to be more poverty in suburbs as people with money now prefer to be closer to work.
But really and truly, within the city of New York, we already have this effect big time. Look at how expensive the core city, Manhattan has become, or the parts of Brooklyn anywhere near Manhattan. Or the parts of Queens near Manhattan like Astoria and LIC. You even now have development in the South Bronx now.
Poverty is concentrating in the parts of Brooklyn that we discussed on another forum. As poor people are pushed further into Westchester or Nassau, a big problem will be the expensive commuter railroads and the overall lack of good public transportations as well as easy access to resources for the needy. This is not just a NYC thing, this is a national trend.
International.
The 50 Year (mistake) of auto-centric development is over. Our sprawl is terrible and completely unsustainable. Dense, urban development is the most profitable, sustainable, and desirable.
The poor will continue to be pushed out of the city. All the boroughs will and are benefiting greatly. The worst areas in our metro eventually may likely be those far from Metro North/LIRR/NJ Transit stations. These are the least desirable places to live.
The 50 Year (mistake) of auto-centric development is over. Our sprawl is terrible and completely unsustainable. Dense, urban development is the most profitable, sustainable, and desirable.
The poor will continue to be pushed out of the city. All the boroughs will and are benefiting greatly. The worst areas in our metro eventually may likely be those far from Metro North/LIRR/NJ Transit stations. These are the least desirable places to live.
Actually, if they are pushed out of the city they aren't going far (the ones that stay in the region). LIRR/Metro North/Nj Transit stations are actually becoming less and less of a deal. If you have to ride a train, you might as well live in the city and take the subway. You will otherwise spend hundreds of dollars a month on transit commuting costs that could be going towards your rent or even a mortgage. I think areas like Nassau are already going WAY down, as they are becoming less desirable to people still working.
You already have crappy suburbs in Nassau, Westchester, and in Jersey. They'll continue to grow in number, and yes, these areas have commuter rail access.
Gentrification is basically money flowing from the suburbs to the inner city, making American cities worldwide like most cities . The city life is for the well to do, the poor commute in from far away suburbs, and as noted, urban elites also have country estates.
The suburban poor cannot afford the Metro/LIRR or the commuter buses.
They will work where they live. More and more foreclosed surburban houses with finished basements are being purchased by investors to make rental properties. They will rent to one family for an exorbitant amount and that family will double or triple up to make the rent. The increase in population is going to stress the schools and services to the breaking point.
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
Actually, if they are pushed out of the city they aren't going far (the ones that stay in the region). LIRR/Metro North/Nj Transit stations are actually becoming less and less of a deal. If you have to ride a train, you might as well live in the city and take the subway. You will otherwise spend hundreds of dollars a month on transit commuting costs that could be going towards your rent or even a mortgage. I think areas like Nassau are already going WAY down, as they are becoming less desirable to people still working.
You already have crappy suburbs in Nassau, Westchester, and in Jersey. They'll continue to grow in number, and yes, these areas have commuter rail access.
Gentrification is basically money flowing from the suburbs to the inner city, making American cities worldwide like most cities . The city life is for the well to do, the poor commute in from far away suburbs, and as noted, urban elites also have country estates.
The suburban poor cannot afford the Metro/LIRR or the commuter buses.
They will work where they live. More and more foreclosed surburban houses with finished basements are being purchased by investors to make rental properties. They will rent to one family for an exorbitant amount and that family will double or triple up to make the rent. The increase in population is going to stress the schools and services to the breaking point.
I kind of agree with this, metro north LIRR are very expensive, lets not also forget that NYC suburbs have some high property taxes as well as well as auto insurance rate, I don't think a poor person in the right mind can not afford those burdens which will push them further into poverty. Plenty of poor suburbanites will work where they live. Exurbs and NYC suburbs with their good schools are not going anywhere anytime soon, so people still keep on dreaming and keep on sipping NYT Kool aide.
I kind of agree with this, metro north LIRR are very expensive, lets not also forget that NYC suburbs have some high property taxes as well as well as auto insurance rate, I don't think a poor person in the right mind can not afford those burdens which will push them further into poverty. Plenty of poor suburbanites will work where they live. Exurbs and NYC suburbs with their good schools are not going anywhere anytime soon, so people still keep on dreaming and keep on sipping NYT Kool aide.
I don't think the Hamptons are going anywhere. With that said, Newark is technically a suburbs of NYC ,and you see what its like. Ditto New Rochelle. Nassau has ghetto areas as well. This is increasing. You already have single family homes that have become multiple family dwellings, in some cases full of illegal immigrants as it becomes much harder for illegals to afford big parts of Queens and the Bronx. There have been articles written on this and people have complained big time about this in Long Island and Westchester. And having a single family house become a dwelling for three or four family just does absolute wonders for property values, doesn't it? And this isn't all poor immigrants, either, some of this pilling up is poor Americans. Easier to get away with this in a rented house than an apartment building which must face NYC inspectors.
I knew a girl from Suffolk who told me about the trailer park trash communities out there. Its not all well to do, either. It never was, but they are being joined by poor people who flee the prices of the inner city.
Those people who "gentrify" places like Williamsburg are often suburbanites who want to be close to the urban core, for lifestyle and career purposes. This is not a NYC thing, its a national trend for big cities.
Oh, and for those who have money, there are indeed good private schools within the 5 boroughs. There are also the better public schools one must past certain tests to get in.
Oh, where did Chicago dump its poor people after they demolished the housing projects? The suburbs!
I've known a lot of drug addicted filth from the suburbs. I'm not convinced their schools were all necessarily that greats, its just that one of the things people try to use to cover up BS arguments is the "children." The poor innocent children will be better if you move to NYC suburbs, when NYC's suburbs also have some horribly ghetto areas.
Here's an article on gang violence issues in Nassau.
Here's an article about how PIMPS are increasing spreading out from Queens to the suburbs. I'm sure the foreclosed housing in certain areas help big time in the spread of this vice.
Its not in this article, I've known people who worked in the sex business. Real estate investment in the inner city has put a lot of them out of the buildings they used to operate in. So now they increasingly operate out of the suburbs.
But of course, the suburbs are still utopia for the "children". Not even!
The wealthier suburbs aren't going to change much because they have the $$$ and time to fight. You will never see substandard divided up single family homes in Larchmont or Scarsdale because they have money and clout and will not allow that to happen. This is happening in the working and middle class burbs like Yonkers, Ossining, Peekskill etc.
Gangs like the crips, bloods, and MS-13 prefer the suburbs because they are more spread out and have less police presence than the city. That is why the pimps are moving out of the cities to the burbs too. It's too hard to have hookers, drug dealers, and gang activity with the heavy police presence in the city. If you don't get caught up in stop &frisk you will be caught on one of the numerous surveillance cameras all over the city. It's much easier to stash a few girls in suburban homes on big lots and let the customers come to them. Same thing with drugs or gang activity.
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
I don't think the Hamptons are going anywhere.
I've known a lot of drug addicted filth from the suburbs. I'm not convinced their schools were all necessarily that greats, its just that one of the things people try to use to cover up BS arguments is the "children." The poor innocent children will be better if you move to NYC suburbs, when NYC's suburbs also have some horribly ghetto areas.
Here's an article on gang violence issues in Nassau.
Actually, if they are pushed out of the city they aren't going far (the ones that stay in the region). LIRR/Metro North/Nj Transit stations are actually becoming less and less of a deal. If you have to ride a train, you might as well live in the city and take the subway. You will otherwise spend hundreds of dollars a month on transit commuting costs that could be going towards your rent or even a mortgage. I think areas like Nassau are already going WAY down, as they are becoming less desirable to people still working.
You already have crappy suburbs in Nassau, Westchester, and in Jersey. They'll continue to grow in number, and yes, these areas have commuter rail access.
Gentrification is basically money flowing from the suburbs to the inner city, making American cities worldwide like most cities . The city life is for the well to do, the poor commute in from far away suburbs, and as noted, urban elites also have country estates.
So one place in the NY suburbs of Westchester (Ossining) had increased poverty, two in Long Island, and one boro in the city had increased Poverty. Yea, huge trend for the NY suburbs not.
If you take NJ out of the picture there's really not much happening at all around here. Its NJ suburbs of NY, and of other cities of course, that is having the bulk of the problem. People see the data that supports their ubran-planning opinion du jour and ignore the rest. Countrywiode its different, but most of the NY suburbs were built around rail lines going back 100 yrs or more.
The wealthier suburbs aren't going to change much because they have the $$$ and time to fight. You will never see substandard divided up single family homes in Larchmont or Scarsdale because they have money and clout and will not allow that to happen. This is happening in the working and middle class burbs like Yonkers, Ossining, Peekskill etc.
Gangs like the crips, bloods, and MS-13 prefer the suburbs because they are more spread out and have less police presence than the city. That is why the pimps are moving out of the cities to the burbs too. It's too hard to have hookers, drug dealers, and gang activity with the heavy police presence in the city. If you don't get caught up in stop &frisk you will be caught on one of the numerous surveillance cameras all over the city. It's much easier to stash a few girls in suburban homes on big lots and let the customers come to them. Same thing with drugs or gang activity.
Yonkers is not a burb, its a large town, with plenty of urban parts. Even has its own city taxes. Its been crummy for decades.
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