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If you visit the suburbs often or work in the burbs I understand car ownership. Makes sense considering the commuter rail lines are not as frequent and many areas are sprawled out so bicycling for instance would take too Mich time.
However, if your life is NYC centric and you live within a half mile of a subway station (vast majority of the population) a car is an unnecessary expense.
And yes, I am bias against cars. My neighbor was killed by a speeder on a local street, I have seen multiple people get hit by cars, some fatally, when I jog, bike or even walk I can't stand the fumes and many of my family members have Asthma. Drivers make it difficult to cross or bike the street and require expensive infrastructure to provide safety for everyone else. They also suck away tons of tax paper money, road projects are the most expensive transportation infrastructure (greater then subways). Auto oriented thinking also destroyed some neighborhoods in NYC, but that way of thinking is over among the planning community thankfully.
Very sorry to hear about your neighbor .
The guy I bought my current car from lives in Brooklyn. He brought it here from California. He sold it to me for a very cheap price because his insurance rates (he only had liability) were sky high and he barely drove it. Add the enormous amount of tickets he received because he forgot to wake up when the street cleaner came. It wasn't worth it at all for him since he lived near the train and had a bike.
I have a bike, but work overnights in Nassau County. There's no alternate side of the street parking here and most of my friends live in LI. Like you said, it wouldn't be worth it for me not to have one. If I lived deeper in the boroughs, I'd probably still own one, but it would be parked at a friend's as not to have to pay ridiculous parking garage rates out here.
The guy I bought my current car from lives in Brooklyn. He brought it here from California. He sold it to me for a very cheap price because his insurance rates (he only had liability) were sky high and he barely drove it. Add the enormous amount of tickets he received because he forgot to wake up when the street cleaner came. It wasn't worth it at all for him since he lived near the train and had a bike.
I have a bike, but work overnights in Nassau County. There's no alternate side of the street parking here and most of my friends live in LI. Like you said, it wouldn't be worth it for me not to have one. If I lived deeper in the boroughs, I'd probably still own one, but it would be parked at a friend's as not to have to pay ridiculous parking garage rates out here.
We are all New Yorkers, neighbors and have to work together. More mass transit and bicycle commuters would help you too. Reducing congestion.
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Originally Posted by detroitdiesel
I dislike them because there are too many of them in NYC as it is. But I recognize that some people absolutely need them. I would probably want one if I were in your situation..
NYC roads are overcapacity. Congestion pricing is coming eventually and gas tax/tolls will continue to rise. The core of Manhattan (South of 96th/110th) had a recent zoning update which allows developers to eliminate grandfathered parking created during the 50-60s period when there was a parking minimum there. More street closures and plazas are coming, hopefully more aggressive SBS. It's only going to become more expensive to own a car here.
Interestingly enough, if we closed some major roadways to cars and created BRT, you could likely get from East Queens to Midtown in 30 minutes max average...
Imagine a Queens Blvd BRT. Not SBS, true BRT.
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Originally Posted by detroitdiesel
See my edit, just in case you have any comment about it.
Wait a minute, you have to take rlrl's situation into account before you just write him/her off as a car user without a cause.
What scorchers?
Also we do not know the full details of rlrl's situation. I would wait for those if s/he wishes to share any more.
You definitely cannot ride the bike if you are wearing a suit. If you ride in the rain or snow the dirt can come up in your face and clothes. Now you show up to work dirty. This can even happen in dry weather. This does not work.
To travel at a leisurely speed on the bike you have to give yourself enough time. But even then you can still get sweaty or dirty (the latter because of reasons I stated above). Especially in the summer..
I didn't write off rlrl. I hope it doesn't sound that way. Just providing an alternative.
By scorcher I meant really hot.
Full fenders protect you from grime and a lot of people commute wearing suits too, short commutes anyway. Other people change at work.
According to his commute (his address to central Wakefield I figured), it's about 30 minutes at a regular pace on a bike though.
Last edited by nykiddo718718; 05-25-2013 at 05:47 PM..
Interestingly enough, if we closed some major roadways to cars and created BRT, you could likely get from East Queens to Midtown in 30 minutes max average...
Of course if you wanted to get from eastern Queens to Sunnyside, you're now out of luck.
My neighbor was killed by a speeder on a local street....
It's not as common but it's not like bikes haven't killed people either.
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We have a car. We live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn with so-so public transportation (there is one train) but not-so-great parking at night. We moved from a really sweet location in terms of getting the train to one that is kind of far---same neighborhood. My husband would never drive to work and we always take the train when going to the city. But coming back from the city to our area via public transportation late night is SO awful.
I know nykiddo advocates biking a lot but it's not for everyone. I work only a mile and a half from my home---if I worked a day shift, I would probably walk most days. I do not feel safe walking to and from the desolate area alone since I work night shift. When I lived a little closer, my husband used to walk me there at night and I'd come home in the morning to cars broken into the entire way. I'm also absolutely terrified of riding a bike in the street. I've been hit by cars twice and having my back to traffic where I cannot see what is going on behind me will only bring upon a massive anxiety attack.
Also, I'd love to ride a bike, even if I could just do the bike path by my building. I really would. But my knees are so, so bad the last time I tried to ride a bike (easy bike path, no hills) I almost cried from the pain and ended up walking my bike home. I'm in a lot of pain just trying to sit down and stand up so biking makes me feel like someone is stabbing me repeatedly with each pedal.
Most importantly, my husband and I like to take frequent road trips and we often do not plan these trips in advance. We might, on a Saturday night, decide to go hiking on a Sunday morning. We make the 2-3 hour drive upstate---we go when we want to go and come back when we want to come back. Sometimes we visit my uncle's property in the Catskills and other times we decide to run off for a weekend to another state.
And unfortunately, my husband has to drive my mother-in-law around at least once a week and whenever she has a doctor's appointment. (She can't walk well.) She's crazy so that's always fun. It is probably the major downside of us having a car. We are probably the only people (well, one other) that have a car amongst our friends and everyone is all anti-getting-a-car until they can potentially get a free ride from us.
Edit: BTW-I agree that less cars would be nice. But if you want to increase the amount of cyclists on the street, since cars are supposed to share the road with them, I would like to actually SEE cyclists obey traffic laws. Very rarely do I see a cyclist: not salmon, not go through lights, not cut off pedestrians, etc.
Of course if you wanted to get from eastern Queens to Sunnyside, you're now out of luck.
Or we could create BRT routes throughout the city, linking destinations. That's how it should be done (until we can expand those vital subway lines).
Quote:
Originally Posted by city living
It's not as common but it's not like bikes haven't killed people either.
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We have a car. We live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn with so-so public transportation (there is one train) but not-so-great parking at night. We moved from a really sweet location in terms of getting the train to one that is kind of far---same neighborhood. My husband would never drive to work and we always take the train when going to the city. But coming back from the city to our area via public transportation late night is SO awful.
I know nykiddo advocates biking a lot but it's not for everyone. I work only a mile and a half from my home---if I worked a day shift, I would probably walk most days. I do not feel safe walking to and from the desolate area alone since I work night shift. When I lived a little closer, my husband used to walk me there at night and I'd come home in the morning to cars broken into the entire way. I'm also absolutely terrified of riding a bike in the street. I've been hit by cars twice and having my back to traffic where I cannot see what is going on behind me will only bring upon a massive anxiety attack.
Also, I'd love to ride a bike, even if I could just do the bike path by my building. I really would. But my knees are so, so bad the last time I tried to ride a bike (easy bike path, no hills) I almost cried from the pain and ended up walking my bike home. I'm in a lot of pain just trying to sit down and stand up so biking makes me feel like someone is stabbing me repeatedly with each pedal.
Most importantly, my husband and I like to take frequent road trips and we often do not plan these trips in advance. We might, on a Saturday night, decide to go hiking on a Sunday morning. We make the 2-3 hour drive upstate---we go when we want to go and come back when we want to come back. Sometimes we visit my uncle's property in the Catskills and other times we decide to run off for a weekend to another state.
And unfortunately, my husband has to drive my mother-in-law around at least once a week and whenever she has a doctor's appointment. (She can't walk well.) She's crazy so that's always fun. It is probably the major downside of us having a car. We are probably the only people (well, one other) that have a car amongst our friends and everyone is all anti-getting-a-car until they can potentially get a free ride from us.
It's true a handful of people have been killed by bikes in the last 20 years, but it's incomparable to the number of people killed by cars. The last person killed by a bike in NYC was a couple years ago, the only one that year. Imagine how many people were injured by cars last night (even today) and I imagine someone was killed (definitely a few fatalities this past week).
I'm not trying to say everyone should bike, nor do I want them to. I just want more people to consider walking, biking and mass transit. Most trips in NYC are short.
For those that must use a car, you will benefit from decreased congestion.
I have no personal problem against any responsible driver, i'm just upset more hasn't been done to reduce auto dependency in certain areas of the city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitdiesel
I added a good bit of text to my post #20. Sorry about that. Please see it again and if you have any comment just post a new reply..
But if you want to increase the amount of cyclists on the street, since cars are supposed to share the road with them, I would like to actually SEE cyclists obey traffic laws. Very rarely do I see a cyclist: not salmon, not go through lights, not cut off pedestrians, etc.
It may be a good idea to require people to get licenses to ride bicycles and create a points system for cyclists. I am speaking as someone who rides a bicycle sometimes. I used to do it more. Currently for exercise most of the time.
Last edited by detroitdiesel; 05-25-2013 at 06:43 PM..
I have no personal problem against any responsible driver, i'm just upset more hasn't been done to reduce auto dependency in certain areas of the city.
Indeed. My biggest issue is that private vehicles are always directly or indirectly responsible for double parking. I see double parking as ok if it does not delay bus service and does not make a road literally impassable.
PVs are directly responsible when they double park themselves on roads where buses run due to the driver's laziness or due to a simple lack of available parking or whatever.
PVs are indirectly responsible when commercial delivery vehicles double park on these roads (and it is really bad for them to get tickets because they actually deliver goods and keep the economy going) due to a lack of loading zones. If there were more loading zones with longer hours, commercial delivery vehicles would not have to double park while making deliveries.
But nothing is done about this because merchants do not want to give up customer parking spaces because they seem to be so hypnotized by the car culture and do not seem to care that buses are inconvenienced by these problems. The same buses that probably give them more business than cars do due to the greater carrying capacity and whatnot.
And for the life of me I cannot understand why nobody going southbound on Nostrand Ave or Flatbush Ave drives down Nostrand or Flatbush then Newkirk then New York Ave then Ave "H" then Flatbush or Nostrand instead of insisting on sitting in all that traffic north of Flatbush & Nostrand Aves. If I had my druthers the only vehicles that would be driving southbound through the Junction would be emergency vehicles, city vehicles, and anybody needing to park immediately around the Junction area.
It may be a good idea to require people to get licenses to ride bicycles and create a points system for cyclists. I am speaking as someone who rides a bicycle sometimes. I used to do it more. Currently usually for exercise most of the time.
I don't feel this is the time to increase regulations. We want to encourage alternative forms of transportation. Increased regulation would likely discourage use. The biggest danger on our roads by a significant margin are automobiles. The benefits of having more people on bikes far outweigh the cons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitdiesel
Indeed. My biggest issue is that private vehicles are always directly or indirectly responsible for double parking. I see double parking as ok if it does not delay bus service and does not make a road literally impassable.
PVs are directly responsible when they double park themselves on roads where buses run due to the driver's laziness or due to a simple lack of available parking or whatever.
PVs are indirectly responsible when commercial delivery vehicles double park on these roads (and it is really bad for them to get tickets because they actually deliver goods and keep the economy going) due to a lack of loading zones. If there were more loading zones with longer hours, commercial delivery vehicles would not have to double park while making deliveries.
But nothing is done about this because merchants do not want to give up customer parking spaces because they are so hypnotized by the car culture and do not seem to care that buses are inconvenienced by these problems. The same buses that probably give them more business than cars do due to the greater carrying capacity and whatnot.
And for the life of me I cannot understand why nobody going southbound on Nostrand Ave or Flatbush Ave drives down Nostrand or Flatbush then Newkirk then New York Ave then Ave "H" then Flatbush or Nostrand instead of insisting on sitting in all that traffic north of Flatbush & Nostrand Aves. If I had my druthers the only vehicles that would be driving southbound through the Junction would be emergency vehicles, city vehicles, and anybody needing to park immediately around the Junction area.
Double parking also limits driver visibility and creates congestion. Congestion increases the likelyhood of collisions and pollution.
I agree, there should be more loading zones however, the NIMBYs would loose their minds if you took away even 1% of parking (see CitiBike).
Reducing free parking citywide (which is happening slowly), but especially in commercial areas would do a lot of good.
Or we could create BRT routes throughout the city, linking destinations. That's how it should be done (until we can expand those vital subway lines).
It's true a handful of people have been killed by bikes in the last 20 years, but it's incomparable to the number of people killed by cars. The last person killed by a bike in NYC was a couple years ago, the only one that year. Imagine how many people were injured by cars last night (even today) and I imagine someone was killed (definitely a few fatalities this past week).
I'm not trying to say everyone should bike, nor do I want them to. I just want more people to consider walking, biking and mass transit. Most trips in NYC are short.
For those that must use a car, you will benefit from decreased congestion.
I have no personal problem against any responsible driver, i'm just upset more hasn't been done to reduce auto dependency in certain areas of the city.
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I agree. My husband and I walk whenever we can and I'm thankful we live in a neighborhood that actually has stuff to walk to like restaurants, bars, parks, etc. I hate looking for parking. Honestly, I wish I could ride a bike because I want to do that for exercise because I LIKE riding a bike and I HATE jogging.
I think that public transportation lacks in many areas and in many ways. I'm not sure how much it can be improved this late in the game but I hope it can. But when I go to visit a friend in Williamsburg from where I am, it takes me an hour by public transportation. By car, it takes me fifteen minutes. That kind makes me lean heavily on a car, unless I plan on drinking that evening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitdiesel
It may be a good idea to require people to get licenses to ride bicycles and create a points system for cyclists. I am speaking as someone who rides a bicycle sometimes. I used to do it more. Currently usually for exercise most of the time.
I am ALWAYS on the lookout for bikes, more than pedestrians, because those are the people who seem to be doing something that lends itself to injury. When I drive to work at night, it's not well-lit and most people on bikes in the street don't have lights or sometimes not even reflectors. Then they constantly drift back and forth, sometimes four feet into the lane and then back toward the parked cars. I've had cyclists go right through their red lights when I have a green light and have slammed on my brakes. I've been making a turn onto a street and have cyclists salmoning down the street, almost getting hit by my car, when they could have been going the right way down the next block which even has a bike lane. Geez I've almost been hit by a bike MULTIPLE TIMES just being a pedestrian and no one has ever said sorry.
I'm not sure if licensing would work but I think maybe they could promote and enforce biking rules the way they do for cars.
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