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ive always felt like blacks usually got along better with puerto ricans than any other latino group. i think puerto ricans are more open to being in relationships w/ blacks.
has anyone else noticed this? agree or diagree
The relations between African-Americans and Puerto Ricans are much longer than any other latino group, primarily because both, en masses, came to NYC around the same time, from the pre to post WWI period. Both groups been here much longer! Many other groups came, in large numbers, much later!
I went to JHS 126, in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, in the early 80s. That school was as diverse as it gets. But there was only one Dominican that I knew of! All of the other Latinos I knew were Puerto Rican! Remember, we came from neighborhoods and housing complexes such as Williamsburg, Greenpoint, Bushwick, Lindsay, Cooper, and Bed-Stuy!
That being said, I remember reading about a bit of beef between Black and Puerto Rican politicians in Bronx, during the late 80s and early 90s. But I don't see that, now! And actually, that coalition might have given Rangell another term in Congress over the Dominican state senator Espillat! (many have argued that Espillat's failure to diversify his base cost him the election, but that's another subject!)
You are not that important. I could care less what you are. I am being direct. You are not the only one in the world that thinks that their test speaks for the entire family. So I'm just trying to help for those that are interested for their own families.
I have no such obsession, I am just stating that I find that most people will find that most aspects of their oral family history will be true. Maybe names, dates and exact locations maybe slightly off. You may find that grandpa had more than one family in a mile radius or something like that, and the kid you played with was really your brother, and the lady that claimed she was his daughter really was, but the truth is not far off.
I am definitely not geneticist. But why does the subject of genetic testing need to be off limits? Because you say it is? Give me a break.
That's just it. You can't show on this forum that most people will find their oral histories to be true or to be confirmed by genetic testing or records. And that level of detail has nothing to do with NYC issue, which this particularly NYC forum is about. The family history forum would be better suited to that.
The moderators have deleted posts and locked threads that they considered to be off topic before. It's their ultimate call, but I think that's where this thread is heading. Especially since it degenerated into ethnic stereotypes.
I dunno..but on the Everyman level, at least when I lived in the Bronx, blacks and PRs got along for the most part. The biggest divide IMO is cultural more so than race. Latinos (I use Latino bc I want to also include non Spanish speaking Latin Americans like my father who is brasileiro) are very diverse so you can't really generalize. I wasn't raised by the Brazilian side of my family so I felt I stuck out whenever I was around them. I didn't eat the food often. I spoke little to no Portuguese...though I can speak Spanish decently..many of the family immigrated to America, but even two and three generations were culturally intact...i.e. american outside of the home, but inside brasilian culture inside. These differences can make someone feel shut out. Despite this, I didn't see any conflicts between blacks and PRs. As an aside, I'd be interested in getting one of those DNA tests..my mothers side of the family is still a bit of a question mark for me.
Now if you're going to continue on this topic, ADDRESS the LACK of a significant WEST INDIAN (and all Black) presence in ACADEMIA, in the CORPORATE WORLD, and in JOBS requiring PROFESSIONAL DEGREES. Don't hide, and don't run from this. There's no need for me to supply stats, because you know very well Blacks in general have weak presences in these areas (and I mean all Blacks).
NYWriter my response to you came from your commentary that West Indians are a bunch of welfare loving criminals. I pointed out statistics to show you that the socio economic status of West Indians os no worse than it is for your average NYer.
DO YOU RETRACT THOSE ASSININE COMMENTS!!!!!!!!!!!??????
You are now going on some rant implying that I am claiming that West Indians are some ideal group. And now you are extending it into some rage about whether blacks are or are not in the corporate world.
AT NO POINT DID I CLAIM THAT WEST INDIANS HAVE A HIGH PRESENCE IN TOP CORPORATE POSITIONS. Indeed their success is tied to the fact that despite being LESS educated than the average NYer (21% college graduates, 34% mainly due to heavy inflows of college grads from other parts of the USA) they are less likely to be POOR, MORE LIKELY to OWN HOMES, LESS LIKELY TO LIVE IN OVERCROWDED CONDITIONS, AND EARN THE SAME HOUSEHOLD INCOME AS THE AVERAGE NYER WITH THE SAME NUMBER OF WORKERS PER HOUSEHOLD.
HOW many times must I repeat that!!!!!????
And I didn't not pull these numbers out of a hat, is you did about our supposed love for welfare. These are from the latest NYC Department of Planning summary of New New Yorkers. Easily available to you.
Now you can end your childish rant and you can stop imputing statements to me that I didn't make.
You can also withdraw your prior comments that we are a mainly working class, welfare loving group who live in overcrowded conditions. This in your need to scapegoat a group of blacks other than AAs to prove that AAs themselves don't have serious problems.
You do yourself no good because this isn't true for AAs either, so why your need to make such xenophobic comments about another black group baffles me.
Of course I can go on a rant that a more ignorant type of West Indian might blaming the racism that we face that prevents us from getting high corporate positions on the huge stereotypes that AAs have created for black people on the whole.
But I will not because I am aware of the history of blacks in this country and the reasons why they are in the state that they are in, and that large segments have done the best that they can with the opportunities that are available, and that they have paved the way for other non whites in the USA and not always being thanked for this.
I'll make my ultimate point. I have no problem in admitting that many recent immigrants at least work, as opposed to NYCHA people who don't. And I would definitely rather be around recent immigrants who do work as opposed to NYCHA residents who are in and out of jail.
But that's like saying someone who works at McDonalds is better or better of than someone who is on welfare. It's not really saying that much.
CaribNY ignored me when I mentioned the corporate world, which has FEW Blacks of any kind and which very few immigrants could enter. Most immigrants (unless they came from wealthy families who could afford to pay for their university education here) are not going to get into Columbia or NYU (though if their children work hard enough, they might).
If you really want to talk about a model minority in NYC, you can talk about Jews. You have a Jewish mayor, a number of Jewish bankers, professors, doctors, dentists, and other people in professions that require one to be highly educated. Because in the NYC area there are so many educated and successful Jews, they have professional and social networks that help them enormously with their careers. Neither West Indians nor AAs (nor Hispanics) have this in NYC, and if you want to advance yourself socioeconomically you'd need to spend considerable time talking with and dealing with non Blacks (and non Hispanics). And yes, there are Jewish people on welfare, but that's more than balanced out by the likes of Bloomberg and a number of other wealthy people.
As I said, CaribNY knows very well the global status of Blacks is poor, and this is a self hatred/defense mechanism. Knowing that Blacks are basically at the bottom of NYC, you try to say you're a different kind of Black (West Indian). But the problem is that if you compare West Indians to "minorities" like Jews and Asians (if you insist on ethnic stereotyping) they don't do so well, do they? I had dental work done at Columbia Dental School, because it was comparatively cheap. There were a few Black dental students, but they were dwarfed by the huge number of Asian dental students. And not one of the dental students had a Caribbean accent, meaning they were either AAs or at least American born.
I feel you do a lot of serious damage and disservice to the discrimination that Blacks and immigrants face in NYC by trolling and starting ethnic fights.
Now if you're going to continue on this topic, ADDRESS the LACK of a significant WEST INDIAN (and all Black) presence in ACADEMIA, in the CORPORATE WORLD, and in JOBS requiring PROFESSIONAL DEGREES.Don't hide, and don't run from this. There's no need for me to supply stats, because you know very well Blacks in general have weak presences in these areas (and I mean all Blacks).
In college most blacks I know are know were the first in their families to go to college.
and most blacks I know don't have professional careers or jobs.
Academia and the corporate world in this country have always been historically white and Blacks were banned from many institutions throughout history.
Yes, times have changed. But the facts still remain.
You made good points but CaribNY is doing what many people do. I've seen posters like this before.
I don't think that foreign Blacks and their children born in the US have a higher welfare use than AA's this is an HRA statistical fact released in 2013 to HRA staff from the City. It may well be 5%, for foreign born I don't know what the percentage is. Remember HRA IS taking into consideration West Indian descent and Children of African Immigrants as well as foreign born.
YOUR statistical information may only consider foreign born, and considerer all born in the US as AA's.
Yes they have broken it down, because they want to know how many AA's are in this city, and how many are on Public Assistance. AA's are not considered the model minority. It is just not released to the public.
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so post these states then. I find this interesting, given that Blacks are always regarded as a racial group, with no regard for the ethnic distinctions, as they have for Hispanic and Asian groups. Indeed the only reliable black ethnic statistics refer to black who are foreign born.
So I am curious about the data about US born kids of Caribbean parentage. Because I have repeatedly said that I make no representations about how they are doing.
And for precisely the same reasons I confine my comments to people of CARIBBEAN BIRTH. But in states which interest you, Jamaicans between 17-24 are LESS likely to have dropped out of school than the average NYer, so that doesn't appear to me as if they are on the road to welfare dependency.
That's just it. You can't show on this forum that most people will find their oral histories to be true or to be confirmed by genetic testing or records. And that level of detail has nothing to do with NYC issue, which this particularly NYC forum is about. The family history forum would be better suited to that.
The moderators have deleted posts and locked threads that they considered to be off topic before. It's their ultimate call, but I think that's where this thread is heading. Especially since it degenerated into ethnic stereotypes.
I've noticed if I see a thread about crime, poverty, someone moving into a area that is regarded as bad, advice on where to live, these threads usually go off topic and end up with people making it into a discussion about race.
That's just it. You can't show on this forum that most people will find their oral histories to be true or to be confirmed by genetic testing or records. And that level of detail has nothing to do with NYC issue, which this particularly NYC forum is about. The family history forum would be better suited to that.
The moderators have deleted posts and locked threads that they considered to be off topic before. It's their ultimate call, but I think that's where this thread is heading. Especially since it degenerated into ethnic stereotypes.
You are the one that went on a rant about AA's not wanting to be Black, and claiming that they are something else. Just because your great-grandmother loved her Native American father and passed the knowledge of him down to her granddaughter, your mother, doesn't mean that your mother and her grandmother are/were not proud they are Black. I'm stating "you" as an example so don't flip.
The term Black started coming into use because Black people are not just colored or Negro as they used to be referred to. Most thought that since White people use the term White, they would just simplify and use Black. AA's honestly haven't been just African since a generation after landing on this continent. I have seen on census records in the south where slaves were Haitan and Filipino. Puerto Ricans were share croppers in Georgia, Alabama, and Louisiana as well as Florida in the early 1900's. Chinese were laborers all through the south. Many of these people have descendants in the south that are just considered Black now.
If they honor their ancestor by mentioning them, people like you are flipping now. That is my point.
so post these states then. I find this interesting, given that Blacks are always regarded as a racial group, with no regard for the ethnic distinctions, as they have for Hispanic and Asian groups. Indeed the only reliable black ethnic statistics refer to black who are foreign born.
So I am curious about the data about US born kids of Caribbean parentage. Because I have repeatedly said that I make no representations about how they are doing.
And for precisely the same reasons I confine my comments to people of CARIBBEAN BIRTH. But in states which interest you, Jamaicans between 17-24 are LESS likely to have dropped out of school than the average NYer, so that doesn't appear to me as if they are on the road to welfare dependency.
I honestly can't post it because it was sent to me by my source at HRA and it is statistics not released to the public. But it is the truth. They have many statistics broken down to see where AA's stand on many different levels in this city.
Carribean Blacks are not by any means the highest amount of people on Welfare, Dominicans are. Carribean Blacks are a higher amount of people in the City than AA's because it is more of them if you include 2nd and 3rd and incoming 4th generation.
Last edited by DAS; 12-26-2013 at 04:23 PM..
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