Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The segregation in NYC is amazing sometimes. Some of it self, some of it not. Funny enough, when people speak of NYC, they always talk about its multiculturalism and "melting pot" status.
It's really very balkanized...but that's becoming less the case thankfully. However there are still a handful of areas which are fighting hard to make sure they don't change...and by that I mean they stay "white".
I don't see how that's noteworthy. Nearly a half-million people live in SI. Of course you'll find a homosexual or two.
It is noteworthy because you have an old school South Shore Italian-American who is not only gay, but married and put the news out for God and the world to see. Also his family (at least far as his siblings and parents) are happy and alright enough about it that they attended the ceremony and also were listed in the announcement.
Yes, there were always gays on SI, even back in the day, but for most it was something you didn't shout from the housetops. Even after Mr. Titone helped pushed though NYS's gay marriage bill his longtime partner remained a "mystery" general public wise and the couple were not in the first waves of same sex marriages. IIRC the reason given was that the "husband' is involved in construction and was worried how coming officially "out" in such a fashion would affect his business. The couple eventually married, but again they live on the North Shore in rather liberal Randall Manor/West Brighton.
Your story makes me sad that I cannot recall ever chasing people with bats. It really makes me wish I had.
Chased (with or without bats), bottles being thrown from cars at, simply being attacked for being on the "wrong" side of SI, and the worse when a Black man or kid said or looked at an white (usually Italian but not always) female the wrong way, yes it all happened on the Rock. But you wouldn't hear about it exactly in those terms in the Advance or even police reports. Those were the days before "hate crime" laws and so forth.
Today of course if anything happens to a protected class or minority you hear about it at once. This is why while such things still go on, people generally keep their hands to themselves. You just cannot get away with beating down a black kid because he got to friendly with your sister.
Checkmate I think we will agree to disagree. The same reason/delusions people think the only reason why Woodlawn is still 95% Irish is because "people of color don't want to live there"..the same excuses why the Fire Dept is still exactly as it was in 1960 because "people of color don't want those jobs", and why Breezy Point makes sure it remains exactly the way it is whether it is 2013 or 1950...on and on...I don't play those silly games..that's for the simple minded and/or delusional. You are welcome to believe Staten Island is just a wholesome quiet community....and it is..so long as you "belong" there....and that includes 2013..the same way Woodlawn in 2013 is.
These types of communities are dwindling thankfully, but Staten Island is the last hold out for Archie and crew. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but pretending I am the one with the problem because I call them out, is silly. Does this mean everyone in Staten Island is that way? Of course not...does this mean Staten Island is holding KKK rallies? That's a dumb question as you should know racism in 2013 doesn't come knocking on your door with white robes...
It's really an insular community that wants to stay that way..much like the Woodlawns and Breezy Points...if you don't fit the part..they make no mistake about letting you know..and therein lies the problem for me and many others.
You're talking about a borough that is larger than entire cities. You can't sit there and pretend that every single neighborhood is the same. Let's say for argument's sake that all of the neighborhoods that are heavily white on Staten Island are like that because they're insular and unwelcoming to "outsiders". Alright, then what about the various neighborhoods on Staten Island that aren't mostly white? You're really going to tell me that Archie Bunker would be happy in a neighborhood like this, which is 36% Black, and 39% Hispanic. (Meanwhile the city is 23% Black and 28% Hispanic)? How about this neighborhood, which is about 21% Black and 45% Hispanic? Or this neighborhood, which is about 20% Black and 32% Hispanic. And there's many more where that came from.
So yes, you are sitting here generalizing an entire borough. When you have whole swaths that are diverse (and other portions that are diversifying), you're not going to sit there and argue that the entire borough is some insular place.
Now, could you make that case for areas deep in the South Shore that are almost 90% White? Possibly. (Even though some of those whites are groups like Russians and Albanians, are still considered "outsiders" by some). But to generalize an entire county of almost half a million people is just plain ignorant.
You're probably going to repeat "I didn't say everybody was like that", and I know that. But my point is that there are entire swaths of the borough where that attitude you describe is virtually nonexistant.
It's like saying that all of Queens is insular because Howard Beach is insular. Or all of The Bronx is insular because Woodlawn is insular. Or all of Brooklyn is insular because Gerritsen Beach and Mill Basin/Bergen Beach are insular.
Chased (with or without bats), bottles being thrown from cars at, simply being attacked for being on the "wrong" side of SI, and the worse when a Black man or kid said or looked at an white (usually Italian but not always) female the wrong way, yes it all happened on the Rock. But you wouldn't hear about it exactly in those terms in the Advance or even police reports. Those were the days before "hate crime" laws and so forth.
Today of course if anything happens to a protected class or minority you hear about it at once. This is why while such things still go on, people generally keep their hands to themselves. You just cannot get away with beating down a black kid because he got to friendly with your sister.
You have had the above in parts of Queens and Brooklyn in the 1980s and to a degree in the 1990s, Bensonhurst, Howard Beach, and a number of other neighborhoods. Many of these places went through massive demographic changes. SO it was a combination of hate crime laws and these no longer being ethnic Italian or Irish neighborhoods. Also, I do think attitudes changed not with just enforcement of laws, but with people becoming more used to being around different groups of people.
You're talking about a borough that is larger than entire cities. You can't sit there and pretend that every single neighborhood is the same. Let's say for argument's sake that all of the neighborhoods that are heavily white on Staten Island are like that because they're insular and unwelcoming to "outsiders". Alright, then what about the various neighborhoods on Staten Island that aren't mostly white? You're really going to tell me that Archie Bunker would be happy in a neighborhood like this, which is 36% Black, and 39% Hispanic. (Meanwhile the city is 23% Black and 28% Hispanic)? How about this neighborhood, which is about 21% Black and 45% Hispanic? Or this neighborhood, which is about 20% Black and 32% Hispanic. And there's many more where that came from.
So yes, you are sitting here generalizing an entire borough. When you have whole swaths of neighborhoods that are diverse (and others that are diversifying), you're not going to sit there and argue that the entire borough is some insular place.
Now, could you make that case for areas deep in the South Shore that are almost 90% White? Possibly. (Even though some of those whites are Russians and Albanians, are still be considered "outsiders" by some). But to generalize an entire county of almost half a million people is just plain ignorant.
To some degree what you are saying may be true, but you have to consider many "Archie Bunker" or even "Tony Sporano" old school Staten Islanders have not moved because they do not want to and or cannot. That does not mean they accept things on the ground, just that they must deal with things as they are.
You can go to many formerly all white or mostly white parts of the North Shore such as West Brighton, Saint George, Stapleton, etc... and find "old school" Staten Islanders still living in their homes surrounded by persons they really don't like (blacks, gays, Hispanics, etc...) but what are the alternatives?
For most their homes are paid off and they are senior citizens. Their children would love for them to join them in NJ, Florida or wherever but they just won't be moved. There simply is something about certain Staten Islanders that keeps them in "their" area on "their" Island that that is where they will remain until they die. You can see proof of this every Thanksgiving and Christmas as traffic is backed up on the New Jersey and VZNB with families going home to the grandparents or parents homes for the holidays.
To some degree what you are saying may be true, but you have to consider many "Archie Bunker" or even "Tony Sporano" old school Staten Islanders have not moved because they do not want to and or cannot. That does not mean they accept things on the ground, just that they must deal with things as they are.
You can go to many formerly all white or mostly white parts of the North Shore such as West Brighton, Saint George, Stapleton, etc... and find "old school" Staten Islanders still living in their homes surrounded by persons they really don't like (blacks, gays, Hispanics, etc...) but what are the alternatives?
For most their homes are paid off and they are senior citizens. Their children would love for them to join them in NJ, Florida or wherever but they just won't be moved. There simply is something about certain Staten Islanders that keeps them in "their" area on "their" Island that that is where they will remain until they die. You can see proof of this every Thanksgiving and Christmas as traffic is backed up on the New Jersey and VZNB with families going home to the grandparents or parents homes for the holidays.
This was Queens in the 1990s. A lot of elderly white homeowners who hated the changes around them. Complete demographics changes, many immigrants from Latin America and Asia. But by then many of their children were living elsewhere, and they were surrounded by newcomers they didn't like. Much of this has died off or gone into the nursing homes.
So it looks like in 10 or 20 years, Joe Lhota won't even win Staten Island (which he did not win on a huge margin, btw.)
I'll never get over how the only time it is unacceptable to complain about "changes" to one's neighborhood is when you're white.
When the hipsters take over low income neighborhoods - effectively raising the quality of life and property values - it is perfectly acceptable for the "established" old school hispanics and blacks to ***** and complain, even those on section 8 and/or other forms of government assistance. This is why long ago I stopped worrying about whether anyone was going to label me a racist. Those types cry wolf so often that it eventually becomes no more annoying (or relevant) than a fruit fly.
Being a white male in NYC without any of the currently acceptable "qualifiers" (gay, converted muslim, jew, artist, etc), I'm seen as a racist at birth any way. Eventually one learns to accept that fact.
Hell we have a poster here who considers all Republicans racist. Why bother trying to escape it any more?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
