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So I stumbled upon a thread on the Cali forum which reminds me of an outstanding issue here in NYC-- the clear culture/race divide and unwillingness/inability of assimilation into the American culture so prevalent among many ethnic communities, including but not limited to the orthodox jews/chinatown chinese/koreantwon koreans/sunset park amigos/old school italian nabes, etc., just to name a few. Do you all view this as what makes NYC a unique and attractive place and would like it to stay that way, or does this cultural divide/segregation bother you?
As pointed out in the quoted post below, I agree that the lack of assimilation or common interest among these cultural groups today will breed BIG problems when these different cultural groups mature and evolve into "tribes". I predict that within a generation or two, when X-, Y-, Z- Americans are formed and representing the interest of their respective X-, Y-, Z- groups, chaos and fights will arise to destroy this young empire.
Too me it seems really simple. America had a huge influx of Western Europeans in the beginning, and up to the 1950's. The Gold Rush (1849), WW2, and many others came to California for opportunity. IE: My parents were from Tacoma, WA and came in the 50's when they got married. However, since the 60's immigrants from all over the world have started to come.
I remember my grandfather Olaf (he came here in 1903) telling me that speaking Norwegian was not allowed. My great grandfather was proud to be in America and wanted too assimilate.
I bring this up as a point. California has too many areas where an immigrant can live and never fully assimilate into American culture. Mexicans, Asians, East Indians, and others can live within their own race in California and never learn the American culture. This break down can turn off natives, and drive them out. I'm not being disrespectful, but I couldn't wait to get out. It was not just the cultural change, because high costs, congestion, and other reasons made want to leave too.
I really don't see the white race leaving as a problem, but do think the other races should work on assimilation. Otherwise, this divide could work against the common good which is why they wanted too be here in the first place.
So I stumbled upon a thread on the Cali forum which reminds me of an outstanding issue here in NYC-- the clear culture/race divide and unwillingness/inability of assimilation into the American culture so prevalent among many ethnic communities, including but not limited to the orthodox jews/chinatown chinese/koreantwon koreans/sunset park amigos/old school italian nabes, etc., just to name a few. Do you all view this as what makes NYC a unique and attractive place and would like it to stay that way, or does this cultural divide/segregation bother you?
As pointed out in the quoted post below, I agree that the lack of assimilation or common interest among these cultural groups today will breed BIG problems when these different cultural groups mature and evolve into "tribes". I predict that within a generation or two, when X-, Y-, Z- Americans are formed and representing the interest of their respective X-, Y-, Z- groups, chaos and fights will arise to destroy this young empire.
Nothing of the sort will happen. If urban populations in the US get out of hand, its easy to cut out water and food. Mind you, you'd never have the whole city go crazy, so that makes it easier for the government to calm down populations acting stupid.
As for Italians, they and other whites who have been around for awhile have since fled NYC. Basically, let the immigrants come to NYC and California and crowd themselves in substandard conditions while the white working class had the sense not to put up with these conditions in "hot cities" and bail out.
NYC had more immigrants who stayed in bad parts of town for centuries. Conditions were always horrible and a certain number of people just literally rotted in these poor neighborhoods. Those who could bail out, bailed out.
Its no different from what's going on today, and what will likely be going on 100 years from now.
I'll never forget my maternal-grandfather's answer when I asked him why he didn't teach my mother Italian:
"She's an American. Why does she need to speak Italian?"
The first time he went back to his country of birth, he was carrying an M1-Garand and wearing the uniform of the US Army.
I never heard a single Armenian word come out of the mouth of my paternal grandfather, probably for the same reason. The immigrant groups of today definitely don't appear to be coming here with the intention of becoming Americans. Only time will tell.
NYC had more immigrants who stayed in bad parts of town for centuries. Conditions were always horrible and a certain number of people just literally rotted in these poor neighborhoods. Those who could bail out, bailed out.
Its no different from what's going on today, and what will likely be going on 100 years from now.
I thought the residents of a nabe determines how a nabe is....harlem, chinatown and WH in manhattan are less desirable mostly because the residents there created the mess.
I thought the residents of a nabe determines how a nabe is....harlem, chinatown and WH in manhattan are less desirable mostly because the residents there created the mess.
As late as the 80s much of Manhattan was a mess. Hells Kitchen and the West Village were working class neighborhoods where people worked on the docs or in factories or in warehouses. But by then all ships started docking in NJ, and all remaining factories and warehouses closed on Manhattan's West Side.
From their original design, many of these neighborhoods were meant to be messy. Since when is the hottest real estate near actively operating factories and warehouses.
I'll never forget my maternal-grandfather's answer when I asked him why he didn't teach my mother Italian:
"She's an American. Why does she need to speak Italian?"
The first time he went back to his country of birth, he was carrying an M1-Garand and wearing the uniform of the US Army.
I never heard a single Armenian word come out of the mouth of my paternal grandfather, probably for the same reason. The immigrant groups of today definitely don't appear to be coming here with the intention of becoming Americans. Only time will tell.
Today, in order to get into any liberal arts school you have a foreign language requirement. Depending on what you do professional we do need people who speak other languages. CIA/FBI and other intelligence services. Some people work as translators. And of course in academia people often have to do research in other languages. There are lots of reasons why Americans might need to speak other languages.
Also, in the US during the time of your maternal great-grandfather, Blacks were segregated, despite knowing only English. So what good did learning only English do them?
It was nothing more than lame political indoctrination, this insistence that people know only English to create a vague American identity. Only it doesn't really work.
Btw, when one has a dna test to determine ethnicity, there's no such thing as American. I'm a combination of different African, European, and South Asian ethnic groups. Said mixture could have just as easily happened in Cuba, Brazil, Jamaica, Colombia, Trinidad, Haiti, Panama, Canada, etc. Its an accident of fate that I happened to me born in the US.
And I enjoy very much when I have been to Brazil or other Latin countries people can't tell my nationality by looking at me. I may very well be one of them. Ditto for when I'm around Caribbeans or Africans.
So I stumbled upon a thread on the Califoria forum which reminds me of an outstanding issue here in NYC-- the clear culture/race divide and unwillingness/inability of assimilation into the American culture so prevalent among many ethnic communities, including but not limited to the orthodox jews/chinatown chinese/koreantwon koreans/sunset park amigos/old school italian nabes, etc., just to name a few. Do you all view this as what makes NYC a unique and attractive place and would like it to stay that way, or does rural divide/segregation bother you?
As pointed out in the quoted post below, I agree that the lack of assimilation or common interest among these cultural groups today will breed BIG problems when these different cultural groups mature and evolve into "tribes". I predict that within a generation or two, when X-, Y-, Z- Americans are formed and representing the interest of their respective X-, Y-, Z- groups, chaos and fights will arise to destroy this young empire.
Im laughing my culo off in agony. the problem with the gentrification culture is that it is a mono culture and its primarily in many neighborhoods throughout American urban landscape. The mono culture does not fit well with the urban culture of many other ethnic groups who lived in cities for more than a generation It does create a clash but what can one do? Plenty of these mono culture folks move to urban areas looking for culture but still segregate them selves economically anf sometimes culturally from local urban folk. this can be seen in plenty of urban areas beside NYC like Mission district in SF, Southie in Boston and so on. I doubt that chaos will rise, however you have to understand that all great empires do fall someday, some do fall hard like the Soviet Union, while some Empires take time to fall and die a slowly death like the Roman Empire, Spanish Empire or Ottoman Empire. Problem with America is that it is not really a melting pot and will never be a melting pot because everyone has their own identity. America is more like a puzzle board and every person has to fit somewhere to make the puzzle work. Don't get me wrong people will assimilate and inter marry with others, but their will always be distinction from other people do to religion, race, ethnicity, economics, education etc. To be honest the only true or real Americans that I know of are wasps and African Americans, these folks been here for hundreds of years.
Last edited by Bronxguyanese; 02-26-2014 at 02:17 AM..
Today, in order to get into any liberal arts school you have a foreign language requirement. Depending on what you do professional we do need people who speak other languages. CIA/FBI and other intelligence services. Some people work as translators. And of course in academia people often have to do research in other languages. There are lots of reasons why Americans might need to speak other languages.
Also, in the US during the time of your maternal great-grandfather, Blacks were segregated, despite knowing only English. So what good did learning only English do them?
It was nothing more than lame political indoctrination, this insistence that people know only English to create a vague American identity. Only it doesn't really work.
Btw, when one has a dna test to determine ethnicity, there's no such thing as American. I'm a combination of different African, European, and South Asian ethnic groups. Said mixture could have just as easily happened in Cuba, Brazil, Jamaica, Colombia, Trinidad, Haiti, Panama, Canada, etc. Its an accident of fate that I happened to me born in the US.
And I enjoy very much when I have been to Brazil or other Latin countries people can't tell my nationality by looking at me. I may very well be one of them. Ditto for when I'm around Caribbeans or Africans.
I had to rep you for this. My family came from a melting pot on the edge of South America, and I'm blessed but also cursed to be mixed with Britannic, Iberian, West African and South Asian heritages. These mixes that are in my blood that represent my physical features came through my parents, as well as sounds, tastes and customs, but most notably my great grand parents on both sides of my family who were racially intermixing in the bedroom. Even though I was born here, I'm not a product of NYC or American melting pot, I'm more of a product of international globalism. Even though I was born here in NYC, the race mixing in my blood happened on another continent in the bushy strip of South American Jungle that was controlled by the British! Hey they don't call it Jungle Fever for nothing!
I had to rep you for this. My family came from a melting pot on the edge of South America, and I'm blessed but also cursed to be mixed with Britannic, Iberian, West African and South Asian heritages. These mixes that are in my blood that represent my physical features came through my parents, as well as sounds, tastes and customs, but most notably my great grand parents on both sides of my family who were racially intermixing in the bedroom. Even though I was born here, I'm not a product of NYC or American melting pot, I'm more of a product of international globalism. Even though I was born here in NYC, the race mixing in my blood happened on another continent in the bushy strip of South American Jungle that was controlled by the British! Hey they don't call it Jungle Fever for nothing!
I repped you back. It's good to be aware of one's heritage. Even as far as tastes and customs. My mom's family came from the Gulf Coast area of the South, so I always had a lot of rice, rice and beans, rice and gumbo, etc at home. So in NYC I loved living in areas with lots of Latin and Caribbean food (for that matter, Asian places too, they have a lot of rice as well). I also liked hearing stories about the orishas/African based religions that you have all over the Americas where you have many Black people.
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