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Old 06-24-2013, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Newark, NJ/BK
1,271 posts, read 2,035,314 times
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Ok, here is one thing that has always boggled my mind. A lot of times when people speak of gentrification, they mention gay males as one of the leading signs. How in the world did being gay become synonymous with gentrification? Since when does somebody's sexuality determine whether a neighborhood's status would rise or not?! When I think about this as logically as I can, the most basic conclusion I can come to is that these are, largely, white middle-class men who also happen to be gay. Yet when people speak of them, it's just the gay part that is being highlighted, thus a neighborhood is becoming more upscale. Nobody certainly looks at gay/bisexual black people as a sign of gentrifiers. Just some interesting observations. Any thoughts or opinions? I would love to see a discussion on this.
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:54 PM
 
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As you stated, not all gay men are the same. Some are metrosexual and tend to spend on certain things that are deemed to be "tasteful" - ie, grass fed, sustainable, green etc. Where they move, businesses they patronize follow. But there are men who are outwardly "dudes" (love football, bud beer, rowdiness) but really prefer to sleep with other men. They are not the ones being considered in that market.

Another less important possibility is that the presence of gays implies that the neighborhood is more tolerant of different kinds of people. Then it attracts other people whose views differ from the mainstream - leftists, atheists, polygamists, etc. - and would want to live in a place where they will not encounter hostility. There are still areas in the city that can be intolerant.
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:00 PM
 
4,839 posts, read 6,288,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy View Post
As you stated, not all gay men are the same. Some are metrosexual and tend to spend on certain things that are deemed to be "tasteful" - ie, grass fed, sustainable, green etc. Where they move, businesses they patronize follow. But there are men who are outwardly "dudes" (love football, bud beer, rowdiness) but really prefer to sleep with other men. They are not the ones being considered in that market.

Another less important possibility is that the presence of gays implies that the neighborhood is more tolerant of different kinds of people. Then it attracts other people whose views differ from the mainstream - leftists, atheists, polygamists, etc. - and would want to live in a place where they will not encounter hostility. There are still areas in the city that can be intolerant.

Any time I spot an atheist, I have to stop myself from rage-smashing his cranium.
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Newark, NJ/BK
1,271 posts, read 2,035,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy View Post
As you stated, not all gay men are the same. Some are metrosexual and tend to spend on certain things that are deemed to be "tasteful" - ie, grass fed, sustainable, green etc. Where they move, businesses they patronize follow. But there are men who are outwardly "dudes" (love football, bud beer, rowdiness) but really prefer to sleep with other men. They are not the ones being considered in that market.

Another less important possibility is that the presence of gays implies that the neighborhood is more tolerant of different kinds of people. Then it attracts other people whose views differ from the mainstream - leftists, atheists, polygamists, etc. - and would want to live in a place where they will not encounter hostility. There are still areas in the city that can be intolerant.
Thanks for the very insightful response! You know, I haven't really thought of homosexuality being a market or a certain projection of it being more appealing to the market; but realistically, I should've guessed that since in mainstream culture, you only see a very specific kind of gay men that are featured. For the second paragraph, that's a good possibility. I definitely understand that there are certain sections of this city that can be still very harsh to those that veer from the expected norm. I'm just trying to understand the connection to gay men and real estate because at the surface, it just makes no logical sense.
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:08 PM
 
Location: New York City
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People assume a lot of first-line gentrifiers: artists, designers, hipsters, etc., are gay. Some are and some aren’t.

However, in Manhattan at least, many second-line gentrifiers are upper-middle (or at least Creative) class (predominantly) white gay men. From the Village to SoHo to Chelsea to the East Village to the LES and now Hell’s Kitchen, gay men have been at the vanguard of building or otherwise attracting the amenities that so many people find desirable: restaurants, bars, gyms, boutique shops, gourmet markets, etc.

Gentrification is about quality of life, which ultimately creates status. These neighborhoods aren’t cool because a lot of gay men live there. They’re cool because they have a lot of amenities and a high quality of life.
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Newark, NJ/BK
1,271 posts, read 2,035,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpk-nyc View Post
People assume a lot of first-line gentrifiers: artists, designers, hipsters, etc., are gay. Some are and some arenít.

However, in Manhattan at least, many second-line gentrifiers are upper-middle (or at least Creative) class (predominantly) white gay men. From the Village to SoHo to Chelsea to the East Village to the LES and now Hellís Kitchen, gay men have been at the vanguard of building or otherwise attracting the amenities that so many people find desirable: restaurants, bars, gyms, boutique shops, gourmet markets, etc.

Gentrification is about quality of life, which ultimately creates status. These neighborhoods arenít cool because a lot of gay men live there. Theyíre cool because they have a lot of amenities and a high quality of life.
Your last paragraph is something I would definitely agree with, yet in many cases in real life and on this board, there has been a great association of gay men and gentrification. Therefore, there is a perceived (real or not) idea that if gay men are moving in, your area is, automatically, in high demand.
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:42 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njnyckid View Post
Your last paragraph is something I would definitely agree with, yet in many cases in real life and on this board, there has been a great association of gay men and gentrification. Therefore, there is a perceived (real or not) idea that if gay men are moving in, your area is, automatically, in high demand.
I think those neighborhoods have the potential to be in high demand because of the amenities gay men bring.

Gentrification has become a force of its own. A certain class of gay men paved the way in the 70s, 80s and 90s, but now other people are replicating the template on their own and gay men no longer have the influence they once did. There simply aren’t enough of us.

Gay men may be a scapegoat for gentrification because it easy to mock the things we like: expensive coffee, martini bars, markets with a large selection on international cheeses, etc.

However, I would posit that the much of the contemporary urban upper-middle class lifestyle (going to the gym, drinking fancy coffee and elaborate cocktails, having brunch on Saturdays, etc.) was created by gay men back in the 70s and 80s.
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Newark, NJ/BK
1,271 posts, read 2,035,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpk-nyc View Post
I think those neighborhoods have the potential to be in high demand because of the amenities gay men bring.

Gentrification has become a force of its own. A certain class of gay men paved the way in the 70s, 80s and 90s, but now other people are replicating the template on their own and gay men no longer have the influence they once did. There simply arenít enough of us.

Gay men may be a scapegoat for gentrification because it easy to mock the things we like: expensive coffee, martini bars, markets with a large selection on international cheeses, etc.

However, I would posit that the much of the contemporary urban upper-middle class lifestyle (going to the gym, drinking fancy coffee and elaborate cocktails, having brunch on Saturdays, etc.) was created by gay men back in the 70s and 80s.
It seems almost safe to assume from your post that the connection of gay men and the prosperity of a neighborhood relies on a lot of stereotypes of gay men. Very interesting...
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Old 06-24-2013, 11:00 PM
 
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Gays are sometimes more likely to be pioneers in real estate because they are far less likely to have children- thus certain aspects of any neighborhood may not be as bothersome for them.

Those neighborhoods that come to mind, also share a factor that for gays who wish to be considered part of ''the community" need to have reliable access to said gyms, bars, etc. They are willing to pay a premium for that.
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Old 06-24-2013, 11:32 PM
 
Location: NYntarctica
10,301 posts, read 4,248,085 times
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Originally Posted by availableusername View Post
Any time I spot an atheist, I have to stop myself from rage-smashing his cranium.
I'm guessing you have to stop yourself extremely often, since New York is a liberal city with hundreds of thousands of atheists
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