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I think the comparison between New York and California is imperfect. One of the disadvantages that California has in terms of assimilation is its proximity to Mexico and Central America combined with a rather porous border. For better or for worse, people are able to come and go more freely, so assimilation takes longer if it happens at all. California also has, arguably, a stronger safety net than New York. Insofar as that safety net might discourage work, it hinders assimilation, as the workplace is generally the sphere where assimilation "happens". Also, though it's controversial, it's worth mentioning that there is a strain of chauvinism among some immigrant groups in California that I find absent for the most part in immigrant groups in New York. Chauvinists of course argue against assimilation full stop.
A slightly different point, but I think people tend to reduce "assimilation" issues down to differences in language when in reality it is a difference in culture or values.
So I stumbled upon a thread on the Cali forum which reminds me of an outstanding issue here in NYC-- the clear culture/race divide and unwillingness/inability of assimilation into the American culture so prevalent among many ethnic communities, including but not limited to the orthodox jews/chinatown chinese/koreantwon koreans/sunset park amigos/old school italian nabes, etc., just to name a few. Do you all view this as what makes NYC a unique and attractive place and would like it to stay that way, or does this cultural divide/segregation bother you?
As pointed out in the quoted post below, I agree that the lack of assimilation or common interest among these cultural groups today will breed BIG problems when these different cultural groups mature and evolve into "tribes". I predict that within a generation or two, when X-, Y-, Z- Americans are formed and representing the interest of their respective X-, Y-, Z- groups, chaos and fights will arise to destroy this young empire.
When people move from one place to another, they usually take their culture with them.
and I still think this hard for many people to understand.
There has never been one America but rather many different Americas. The culture of the gulf coast for instance is not the same as that of the Pacific Northwest, and the Southwest is not the same as that of the Northeast for instance. I can say that conflict does happen when different groups come into contact with one another but I don't think lack of assimilation will bring problems. That has how history has been made. I think things will continue as they have been. Also do you realize most black Americans were actually in this country longer than many immigrant groups, including whites? I know many ethnic whites who still speak Italian, Greek, Polish, or they probably have living relatives who still can speak those languages. Honestly I doubt most whites in this country can trace their ancestry to the American colonial era. What I personally love about NYC is that I get cuisine from all over the world, which may not be the case in another part of the country.
NYC is small but densely populated area yet people in general only frequent places where their ethnics are except when people have to go to work or public destinations. Much of that is due to immigrants that come here and live only within their ethnic neighborhoods and never needed to assimilate.
There are certainly ethnic enclaves all over the country, but after a generation or two people start to move out of them for the simple reason that you can't get a good job if you don't speak English and have an education. Americans living in foreign countries tend to stick together as well. It's human nature.
So I stumbled upon a thread on the Cali forum which reminds me of an outstanding issue here in NYC-- the clear culture/race divide and unwillingness/inability of assimilation into the American culture so prevalent among many ethnic communities, including but not limited to the orthodox jews/chinatown chinese/koreantwon koreans/sunset park amigos/old school italian nabes, etc., just to name a few. Do you all view this as what makes NYC a unique and attractive place and would like it to stay that way, or does this cultural divide/segregation bother you?
As pointed out in the quoted post below, I agree that the lack of assimilation or common interest among these cultural groups today will breed BIG problems when these different cultural groups mature and evolve into "tribes". I predict that within a generation or two, when X-, Y-, Z- Americans are formed and representing the interest of their respective X-, Y-, Z- groups, chaos and fights will arise to destroy this young empire.
I'll never forget my maternal-grandfather's answer when I asked him why he didn't teach my mother Italian:
"She's an American. Why does she need to speak Italian?"
The first time he went back to his country of birth, he was carrying an M1-Garand and wearing the uniform of the US Army.
I never heard a single Armenian word come out of the mouth of my paternal grandfather, probably for the same reason. The immigrant groups of today definitely don't appear to be coming here with the intention of becoming Americans. Only time will tell.
So being bi-lingual makes you un-American, or not wanting to assimilate?
That's the stupidest thing I've read in a while.
Knowing more than one language doesn't make you less American.
It makes you smarter.
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The key difference between bilinguals and monolinguals may be more basic: a heightened ability to monitor the environment. “Bilinguals have to switch languages quite often — you may talk to your father in one language and to your mother in another language,” says Albert Costa, a researcher at the University of Pompeu Fabra in Spain. “It requires keeping track of changes around you in the same way that we monitor our surroundings when driving.” In a study comparing German-Italian bilinguals with Italian monolinguals on monitoring tasks, Mr. Costa and his colleagues found that the bilingual subjects not only performed better, but they also did so with less activity in parts of the brain involved in monitoring, indicating that they were more efficient at it.
The bilingual experience appears to influence the brain from infancy to old age (and there is reason to believe that it may also apply to those who learn a second language later in life).
In a 2009 study led by Agnes Kovacs of the International School for Advanced Studies in Trieste, Italy, 7-month-old babies exposed to two languages from birth were compared with peers raised with one language. In an initial set of trials, the infants were presented with an audio cue and then shown a puppet on one side of a screen. Both infant groups learned to look at that side of the screen in anticipation of the puppet. But in a later set of trials, when the puppet began appearing on the opposite side of the screen, the babies exposed to a bilingual environment quickly learned to switch their anticipatory gaze in the new direction while the other babies did not.
----------------------------------------------------- http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/18/op...lism.html?_r=0
I'd be angry with my parents if they spoke a second language and had prevented me from learning it. Knowing a second language opens up so many doors! It's so hard to learn a language in a classroom setting; I'm envious of those who just learned it so easily at home by speaking to family members.
I'd be angry with my parents if they spoke a second language and had prevented me from learning it. Knowing a second language opens up so many doors! It's so hard to learn a language in a classroom setting; I'm envious of those who just learned it so easily at home by speaking to family members.
Yes so true Henna! My father spoke Spanish and my mother spoke German and neither bothered to teach any of us. The ability to speak Spanish does open many doors in NYC. I did learn later in life however I never did gain the proficiency that I saw in my coworkers who were taught as children.
How do you figure Koreans aren't extremely well assimilated into American life??
And how do you define assimilated, bleached hair and a California accent?
That would be a start. Maybe stop driving Hyundais? Also quit opening the BBQ restaurants and start flipping the burgers and rolling the hot dogs. I can just imagine all those Korean restaurants on Northern Blvd converting to burger/hot dog/gyro joints. Would you like kimchi on your hot dog anyone?
There are certainly ethnic enclaves all over the country, but after a generation or two people start to move out of them for the simple reason that you can't get a good job if you don't speak English and have an education. Americans living in foreign countries tend to stick together as well. It's human nature.
I think that the time here is the key. After a generation or two immigrants are much more likley to be in the mainstream. This has been the history in NYC. Immigrants come, stay in their enclaves for the support and familiarity they have there, and then leave. And even if they don't leave, their kids will. And years later a new group moves into the neighborhood and repeats the pattern. Bay Ridge was once full of Nowegians, the Upper West Side full of Puerto Ricans, Yorkville full of Germans, Washington Heights full of Jews. Now all those areas have changed through a combination of ethnic and economic shifts. It'll continue to happen in NYC and I suspect other parts of the country as well.
The other thing is that assimialtion used to be a one-way street and now it's not--which I think is for the good. Use to be that the immigrant came here and the idea was that he had nothing from his culture to offer the natives, and had to totally shed his culture, language, sometime even sometimes his name, to come as close as he could to some imaginary "all-American" WASP ideal. But the world has gotten smaller with travel and technology, we see more of the rest of the world, and so more readily adopt from newcomers, taking to thier foods, music, clothers, ideas, religions, etc That's upsetting to some who think the only America is Mayberry (or whatever the urban equivalent of that is). They'll just have to get over it or, like the OP, get out.
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