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Location: suburbs of NYC en route to southern Illinois
186 posts, read 219,137 times
Reputation: 69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nala8
They love you one minute and then--poof--they are off and running to the next prospect before things have a chance to develop.
Pretty much sums up my dating experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nala8
One guy was so rebellious that he constantly got into arguments with people over the least little thing. He couldn't stand rules or boundaries of any sort, yet he couldn't understand why people wouldn't stick around for long. Funny though, he had his own dating rules, the main one being that any woman who doesn't sleep with him on the third date is out. Good-bye. End of story. One woman had been hurt or disappointed so much that deep down she no longer believed that finding love in NYC was possible. She believed that all the people she dated would either turn out to be creeps, abusive, or downright dangerous. One woman turned out to be so pushy, obsessive, domineering, and know-it-all that even I found myself wanting the night to be over before long. Several of the group members were so shy or socially phobic that they kept skipping the actual meetups, but instead opted to stay in touch with me online.
Yep, sounds to me like a pretty average bunch of neurotic New Yorkers- except the snotty yuppies and elusive blue bloods- too snotty and elusive to ever show up for anything other than a Sotheby's show or MOMA mixer anyway.
I'm the woman in red.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nala8
My issue was that I still don't quite get the whole consumer dating vibe in NYC; I'm not so willing to compromise. I miss the good old days of ltr's and at least serial monogamy.
Doesn't look good overall. Would sure love to read some NYC dating success stories.
I think the success stories would be too busy spending time with eachother to spend much time online anymore...lol...hopefully one day I will get there
Yep, sounds to me like a pretty average bunch of neurotic New Yorkers- except the snotty yuppies and elusive blue bloods- too snotty and elusive to ever show up for anything other than a Sotheby's show or MOMA mixer anyway.
I'm the woman in red.
I think the success stories would be too busy spending time with eachother to spend much time online anymore...lol...hopefully one day I will get there
Sigh... Here's to success--Woman in Red--all in good time.
Better to meet up through an activity group or a class that you enjoy rather than in the bar/club/lounge scene, or through online dating. You'll have an opportunity to get to know the person sober, which is a plus in my book . If you're in a large enough company where relationships won't interfere with your day-to-day responsibilities, work can be a great place to meet people too. I've met people through my ski club, in school and at work. Age really doesn't have much to do with it either. There are tons of singles all over NYC, of all ages.
Location: suburbs of NYC en route to southern Illinois
186 posts, read 219,137 times
Reputation: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nala8
Sigh... Here's to success--Woman in Red--all in good time.
I'll toast to that!
Also, I think it's an amazing idea actually- the Let's Date With A Conscience meetup thing, I'd thought of this for years myself but never found anything. I've been saying ever since I was young, there should be rules!! Just like you can't steal, pick your nose in public, or slap a stranger without repercussions. These egotistical freaks simply don't care about human feelings. I've almost obsessively wondered over the years whether or not they could even *have* human feelings at all based on their behavior. This place is a friggin jungle. I think I am too sensitive and my standards too low. Their life compared to mine: they have *everything*, I have *nothing*. It's the place. There are good men out there.
hahaha now I'm reading this thread. I love,
"In short, wildly inflated expectations+non-existant sexual mores+greedy, speedy outlook=NYs dating scene"
:c rying: it's hopeless!
The whole post by that guy is pretty humorous, but IMO he's dead on the money. Tons of people bring their already-overinflated egos here with them from wherever they came from, and then become raging monsters after NYC works it's magic on them. It's really a matter of how impressionable one is...how likely you are to "drink the kool-aid", so to speak. Assuming all this, it really should be no surprise the dating scene is what it is around here.
Location: suburbs of NYC en route to southern Illinois
186 posts, read 219,137 times
Reputation: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanAdventurer
The whole post by that guy is pretty humorous, but IMO he's dead on the money. Tons of people bring their already-overinflated egos here with them from wherever they came from, and then become raging monsters after NYC works it's magic on them. It's really a matter of how impressionable one is...how likely you are to "drink the kool-aid", so to speak. Assuming all this, it really should be no surprise the dating scene is what it is around here.
What happens if your ego was too small, and you were always here?
So you believe those with the biggest egos are basically the ones with the least character? Funny, that's what I've been thinking all along! But the trouble is, where are the good, mature people then?:conf used:
Also, I think it's an amazing idea actually- the Let's Date With A Conscience meetup thing, I'd thought of this for years myself but never found anything. I've been saying ever since I was young, there should be rules!! Just like you can't steal, pick your nose in public, or slap a stranger without repercussions. These egotistical freaks simply don't care about human feelings. I've almost obsessively wondered over the years whether or not they could even *have* human feelings at all based on their behavior. This place is a friggin jungle. I think I am too sensitive and my standards too low. Their life compared to mine: they have *everything*, I have *nothing*. It's the place. There are good men out there.
Not here.
Thanks susangggg, but I think urbanadventurer and the guy who wrote the original post about the egotism are right. Having a big or overinflated ego might get a person far, but only up to a point, on the job market; but in relationships, even simple dating relationships, a big ego is a disaster. As in:
Entitlement Greed Opportunism
It's a shame, I think: The group never really took off because there wasn't enough group cohesion or faith in the possibility of another way approaching dating. Conscious dating seems to be an oxymoron to so many people in NYC that the few people who might have been ready pretty much folded or disappeared under real or imagined pressure. We even had people in the group who were ready to skip the whole process and just try to meet anyone in typical NYC venues. Another meetup facilitator actually attempted to tell me to organize the group by making the events "fun." I'm all for having fun, don't get me wrong, but the whole point of the group was to have fun while also examining and undoing the dating processes that had left us all feeling so unfulfilled, hurt, and used (depending...).
It left me with hope that a critical mass of the meetup group seemed to crave the excerpts I would send them from Charlotte Kasl's wonderful book, "If the Buddha Dated." How can this material work, however, in real life if the majority of NY'ers only want to be engaged in one-night stands, hookups, and fwb's? If they have come to believe or have been told over and over again that this is all there is? Basically, if you are serious about finding a suitable partner in NYC, you have to meet a lot of unsuitable people and get more and more clear on what you do and do not want until, with any luck, you meet someone who is simpatico. In a city like NYC this might take a while, short of a miracle or the real synchronicity or serendipity of just being in the right place at the right time. Maybe in a city where dating and relationships are supported collectively and in community the process wouldn't be so trying or take so long. Moving is still a gamble, as I have learned; because even here in the midwest there are cities that are changing--and not necessarily for the best in this regard.
I agree that it only gets you so far- in most circumstances. The trouble is that here people are able to get away with it because the women will put up with almost anything (for a number of reasons). The environment is conducive to ego, it necessitates it like he was saying. Here it's like you're at a loss if you *don't* have an inflated ego.
We should revive the whole conscious dating meetup group. Except I'm done with dating here, never will again. I did this city!
Quote:
If they have come to believe or have been told over and over again that this is all there is?
What I learned in my research was from a couple men who had moved around alot, lived in rural areas and in NYC, one had explained it to me this way: basically in the city men never learn to value or experience the good parts of having a relationship, so they wind up valuing hookup culture instead, simply because it's not unknown to them and threatening and don't have the skills anyway to stay with a woman for any period of time lol.
Personally, I prefer the men are worthless pigs argument.
Quote:
Moving is still a gamble, as I have learned; because even here in the midwest there are cities that are changing--and not necessarily for the best in this regard.
Well moving is always a gamble. Places are always changing, in little ways, for good or bad. I am wondering if you feel this is a huge cultural shift across the country? And in a bad way? God I hope not...it will be hopeless for our daughters too then...I won't let that happen.. it seems like a reflection of urbanization and overpopulation, more choices, more random sex, more people, less importance of the individual. We re becoming anonymous. I feel like an analogy to the Borg assimiliating us is appropriate here..
I agree that it only gets you so far- in most circumstances. The trouble is that here people are able to get away with it because the women will put up with almost anything (for a number of reasons). The environment is conducive to ego, it necessitates it like he was saying. Here it's like you're at a loss if you *don't* have an inflated ego.
We should revive the whole conscious dating meetup group. Except I'm done with dating here, never will again. I did this city!
What I learned in my research was from a couple men who had moved around alot, lived in rural areas and in NYC, one had explained it to me this way: basically in the city men never learn to value or experience the good parts of having a relationship, so they wind up valuing hookup culture instead, simply because it's not unknown to them and threatening and don't have the skills anyway to stay with a woman for any period of time lol.
Personally, I prefer the men are worthless pigs argument.
Well moving is always a gamble. Places are always changing, in little ways, for good or bad. I am wondering if you feel this is a huge cultural shift across the country? And in a bad way? God I hope not...it will be hopeless for our daughters too then...I won't let that happen.. it seems like a reflection of urbanization and overpopulation, more choices, more random sex, more people, less importance of the individual. We re becoming anonymous. I feel like an analogy to the Borg assimiliating us is appropriate here..
Gosh, this is so real. Yeah, sadly I do think that many men and women in NYC have so little experience in meaningful or conscious dating that they just do not have the skills to make it work, let alone last, even if they wanted it to work or last. I have had some good luck, but the majority always seem to find some way to sabotage things once things get going. I just let them go. I refuse to be one of those women begging, nagging, or manipulating some guy who is "just not into me" or wants me to magically transform myself into his perfect movie or model version of his ideal woman. The title of a hit Broadway musical really hits home to me: "I Love You, You're Perfect, Now Change."
Yes, I have thought of organizing another conscious dating meetup group, but my concern is that the kind of people who would join such a group might once again find that they do not have the wherewithal to hang in there, given all the social pressures and internalized oppression that tells them pretty much on a daily basis that dating is all about impersonal hookups, etc.
I can't speak for the whole country, let alone the whole midwest; but the dating scene in Madison, WI has definitely taken a beating. I remember reading on craigslist's r&r thread after thread of rants against a woman who had the audacity to fall in love and want something more with her f*** buddy. They tore her up. I was shocked, but it was a good wake up call. Many of the single women here are bitter and caustic--worn down by dashed expectations or disappointments. Many of the single men here think that women are good for random hookups and that's about it. Folks here seem to think this makes them more progressive somehow, but the sad truth is that this attitude coupled with a heavy drinking scene and the economic meltdown makes for a dating scene that is primarily about instant gratification and seldom about long-term relationships. Not everyone, of course, but enough of a critical mass to make dating here just as problematic as in NYC.
To answer your question, yes I do think that society is changing across the board. It just means that those of us who want something more or something deeper will have to be more careful to quickly assess as early as the first date whether or not your date is hookup or relationship oriented. You don't need a lot of likeminded people to date. Statistics put it all into perspective for me, by showing me what is going on out there. But what if you become dating savvy enough to meet someone who is a part of the twenty percent (maybe) of singles in NYC or elsewhere who know how to have fun on a date and are conscious enough to do so without treating their dating partner as a throwaway if things don't work out--or who are open enough and patient enough to let things go farther?
Rather than creating a "conscious dating meetup group" why not plan an activity, like a series of volleyball games? I would love to just get out and play with a bunch of people who want to have fun. The good thing about sports is that it gets you out of the "cave" which we sometimes fall into when things aren't going so well. And then there's the fringe benefit of exercise
Like I said earlier, meeting people is easier when you have a common interest.
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. If you're in a large enough company where relationships won't interfere with your day-to-day responsibilities, work can be a great place to meet people too. I've met people through my ski club, in school and at work. Age really doesn't have much to do with it either. There are tons of singles all over NYC, of all ages.
