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Those stereotypical NYC accents have now "migrated" to the suburbs. The growth of the nonwhite populations, the heavy immigration from Latin America, the Caribbean and Asia and the arrival of mainly white transplants from diverse small towns and suburbs has changed the NYC accent. I think you will hear more of it on LI. Folks can debate amongst themselves as to whether its Bronx, Brooklyn or Queens.
What I can assure folks is that 80-90% of people living in NYC in 2017 have no idea what "kvetching" is all about.
I've seen plenty of old videos of NYC, it's not like all the white natives spoke like Tony Soprano.
And I live in the suburbs, the Italian- American kids don't really talk like that either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
No shock. The stereotypical NYC accents have their roots in the various immigrant languages that arrived in the late 19th century. Much of the slang too.
I was surprised when about 20 years ago I was in Greenpoint and I heard many of the white immigrant kids there with what I thought were AA inflected accents. Likely that their English was influenced by Puerto Rican kids who in turn have been influenced by AAs.
NY Italians' slang traditionally had lots of Italian derived influences in it. It was clearly an ethnic accent. So your example isn't a good one. In fact many older NYers know fragments of Italian as a result.
As to Chinese. Yes they ASPIRE to sound white. The degree to which they succeed depends upon how much exposure they had to them in their language formation ages.
Chinese Americans who grew up in the suburbs among mainly whites sounds different from Chinese Americans whose parents speak poor English and who live in a neighborhood with heavy Chinese influences.
I will suggest that their social class background might have a lot do with whether any Chinese influences can be sensed.
I will more agree with you with second generation Korean Americans. Second generation Filipino kids are quite diverse as well. Many sounding white, but some having Nuyorican/AA influences, again depending on where they grew up. I also suspect that Filipino boys like many white boys will adapt certain AA speech patterns as well.
I think you are confusing the aspiration to sound white with being properly educated on the English language. And having thick Italian, African, or PR American accents as lacking that learning.
I think you are confusing the aspiration to sound white with being properly educated on the English language. And having thick Italian, African, or PR American accents as lacking that learning.
Don't come to me with that BS that speaking standard English is "sounding white."
Loads of black Americans speak standard English and its clear that they are African American.
There is a definite pattern of speech that we all know is "white sounding" even if some try to normalize it as "proper speech".
Not so much the speech pattern, more like the timbre of the voice
I will you an example.
Black NYC speech typically still has some southern/Caribbean influences so the word "better" is pronounced "bettah". No "r" sound at the end of a word.
Whites in the NY area (aside from the older ones) ride their "r"s as if they would be shot if they don't. Not true of all whites, but this is mainstream "white speech". So it isn't just a tone. I am sure that I can think of other examples.
Blacks often speak in non literal illustrative ways, especially when the intent is to be humorous or otherwise communicate emotion. Whites tend to be literal. Blacks communicate with their bodies more, and this impacts speech as well.
Black NYC speech typically still has some southern/Caribbean influences so the word "better" is pronounced "bettah". No "r" sound at the end of a word.
Whites in the NY area (aside from the older ones) ride their "r"s as if they would be shot if they don't. Not true of all whites, but this is mainstream "white speech". So it isn't just a tone. I am sure that I can think of other examples.
Blacks often speak in non literal illustrative ways, especially when the intent is to be humorous or otherwise communicate emotion. Whites tend to be literal. Blacks communicate with their bodies more, and this impacts speech as well.
I work with mostly black people and I haven't noticed the "bettah" thing, that sounds more like a southerner thing to me. In fact, I definitely hear my coworkers say "water" and not "wutta".
Now, black people and white people on average definitely speak differently, but that has more to do with slang and the timbre of voice.
What's interesting to me is how people who are neither black or white talk. Nuyoricans and Nuyodominicans for instance, seem to speak similar to blacks but with a different timbre of voice, and maybe some subtle Latin flair. That's just a generalization though, of course.
I work with mostly black people and I haven't noticed the "bettah" thing, that sounds more like a southerner thing to me. In fact, I definitely hear my coworkers say "water" and not "wutta".
Now, black people and white people on average definitely speak differently, but that has more to do with slang and the timbre of voice.
What's interesting to me is how people who are neither black or white talk. Nuyoricans and Nuyodominicans for instance, seem to speak similar to blacks but with a different timbre of voice, and maybe some subtle Latin flair. That's just a generalization though, of course.
As for better and water, among NYC blacks it would prolly be pronounced more like "bedder" and "warder" with the r being barely pronounced almost as if it wasnt there. And what do you mean by "timbre of voice"?
And can you elaborate on the nuyorican/nuyodominican thing.
As for better and water, among NYC blacks it would prolly be pronounced more like "bedder" and "warder" with the r being barely pronounced almost as if it wasnt there. And what do you mean by "timbre of voice"?
And can you elaborate on the nuyorican/nuyodominican thing.
I've never noticed the "water" thing, pretty sure most pronounce it "wutter" as do most whites around here.
Timbre means the way the something sounds. So the qualities of someone's voice besides accent and pitch.
A lot of Nuyoricans/Nuyodominicans use black slang, I'm sure you've noticed that by now. So they use a lot of black slang but don't sound exactly the same as black people.
As for better and water, among NYC blacks it would prolly be pronounced more like "bedder" and "warder" with the r being barely pronounced almost as if it wasnt there. .
Whereas whites will grind that "RRRRRRRR" sound for hours. The blacks who speak like this are those who hypocorrect in their attempt to sound "white" which sadly to some is what they think that they should do to seem professional.
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