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Property tax is the main issue, my research shows the average tax obligation is @$45.00 per 1k of assessed value, I realize this varies with the community but for me it's 5x my current taxes. Star only helps with the property tax (if elligable) not school tax which seems to be the lions share in most communities. Someone quoted NY sales tax at 8.5%, ouch. I also am looking at upstate to retire but I am used to excellant services for my tax dollar and am not willing to accept pot holes, intersections that need traffic lights and worthless public officals so i'll have to see when the time comes...
I may be wrong but I thought STAR did reduce the school tax portion of the combined school/property tax obligation. The 8.5% sales tax must be for locales closer to NYC. The rate I just looked up for Warren County was 7%. As others have said on this forum, they will get you one way or the other. If not through property taxes and income taxes, then through much higher car taxes and other nit-picky fees. Even though my ad-valorem taxes on my home in FL is supposed to be capped, the town I live in found an ingenious way around that by taking garbage collection and street lighting taxes out of the "ad-valorem" category and made them "non ad-valorem", which they can raise at will. In all the travels I have made through the part of upstate NY I am interested in, I have found the roads and services to be satisfactory. Including first-rate parks. Can't always say that about my area down here. I will agree about the worthless politicians though.
For the houses and areas I have been looking at, that can be anywhere from $2500 - $4000/yr. Add the extremely high cost of homeowner's insurance here, you get into NYS values for taxes plus insurance. I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility to find a decent home in Warren County NY with property taxes of $5K or less with much less cost for insurance. Again, all other things being equal, not a deal breaker for me. I have numerous reasons why I want to move out of FL, the least of which is the extremely hot weather for a very long duration. As I previously said, it comes down to quality of life issues primarily. Your results may vary.
So true.
I have a "fr-enemy" (enemy-"friend") in Florida, who likes to throw NY's high real estate taxes in my face... no matter how much I make the comparison and show her that we actually pay LESS to live here than she pays to live there, she won't accept it. Her annual taxes are $2200. Mine are about $3800... I also live in a village, which increases our taxes (included in that $3800.) My house is MUCH nicer and I paid half of what she did. Her homeowner's insurance is nearly $4000/year. Ours is $485/year... and that's with more than double replacement value (to pay off the house, built another with no debt and furnish it.) Our groceries are less. Our utilities are less. Our vehicle taxes/fees are less. Our schools are better. Our public services are better. Yes- we have an income tax... but with children, we get a lot of that money back.
It all evens out. If one is able to use their sense of reason (which not all people use :P ), he can actually come out on top in New York. It sounds like you have that ability and I wish you a pleasant relocation!
I have a "fr-enemy" (enemy-"friend") in Florida, who likes to throw NY's high real estate taxes in my face... no matter how much I make the comparison and show her that we actually pay LESS to live here than she pays to live there, she won't accept it. Her annual taxes are $2200. Mine are about $3800... I also live in a village, which increases our taxes (included in that $3800.) My house is MUCH nicer and I paid half of what she did. Her homeowner's insurance is nearly $4000/year. Ours is $485/year... and that's with more than double replacement value (to pay off the house, built another with no debt and furnish it.) Our groceries are less. Our utilities are less. Our vehicle taxes/fees are less. Our schools are better. Our public services are better. Yes- we have an income tax... but with children, we get a lot of that money back.
It all evens out. If one is able to use their sense of reason (which not all people use :P ), he can actually come out on top in New York. It sounds like you have that ability and I wish you a pleasant relocation!
The problem is the cost of living in the metro area(where the jobs supposedly are) is truly crushing and unless you're a Wall Street scumbag your income still really isn't high enough to live comfortably.
If you live upstate where the cost of living is nil, you're either making very little money, or on welfare as its really very poor once you get near Utica, Rochester, Buffalo, etc.
I'm from Long Island originally, only one of my friends still lives there, everyone else (myself included) headed South or West.
The problem is the cost of living in the metro area(where the jobs supposedly are) is truly crushing and unless you're a Wall Street scumbag your income still really isn't high enough to live comfortably.
The NYC metro area, you mean? I have no idea of the COL there so I can't comment on that. I DO know that my family in Long Island live there because it's more affordable... even with it being more afforable, it still takes two incomes to support a modest household.
Quote:
If you live upstate where the cost of living is nil, you're either making very little money, or on welfare as its really very poor once you get near Utica, Rochester, Buffalo, etc.
I was born and raised in the Syracuse area. My husband grew up in New England, moved to Key West for 6 years (after HS graduation) and relocated up to Syracuse, where we are now raising our family. We live in one of the most affluent suburbs in this region and are able to support ourselves on one income of $50-$60K/year, with a family of 5 and hopefully growing... we are more than comfortable.
There are the poor, of course, but this area is a FAR cry from the wretched upstate notion you (and probably many other downstaters) have... the reputation rather than the reality. The pockets of poverty tend to stay within themsleves... poverty is an issue everywhere, not just upstate NY. (It IS unfortunate that those areas tend to be in direct view of all major highways... I can see how one would get that impression.) I'm not familiar with the other cities you mention so I won't speak as to their conditions. What I am familiar with is the state of Syracuse itself- that we have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the nation, that we are the only metro to have registered a substantial net job GROWTH besides NYC's, and that we are home to a growing number of educated professionals, who are finding that central NY is THE place to be. So much growth in the fields of healthcare, education, technology and real estate, both commercial and residential.
With all of that, I just have a hard time with the idea that upstate is so very poor. My husband would get the same pay in Ronkonkoma as he does here... but our COL is SO much less. His commission is based in an industry where, if local people didn't have a substantial disposable income, he would be paid a pittance. We live between the Adirondacks and the Finger Lakes (second largest winery region in the United States, growing in reputation by the year and second only to Napa Valley)- we have mountains to indulge our winter sports' love in and a breathtakingly beautiful view from just about anywhere... we're 4 hours from NYC and a short day trip to any major northeastern city, Toronto, Montreal... and *because* we live in an area with NORMAL incomes and a very low COL, we have the disposable income to do such things.
I think that people from the NYC metro have been dealt a poor hand, in being taught that the only worthwhile place in our ENTIRE state is right there... and that if you don't succeed there, it's time to move out of state. Upstate NY is an absolute jewel, if you care to find your own niche in it.
The NYC metro area, you mean? I have no idea of the COL there so I can't comment on that. I DO know that my family in Long Island live there because it's more affordable... even with it being more afforable, it still takes two incomes to support a modest household.
I was born and raised in the Syracuse area. My husband grew up in New England, moved to Key West for 6 years (after HS graduation) and relocated up to Syracuse, where we are now raising our family. We live in one of the most affluent suburbs in this region and are able to support ourselves on one income of $50-$60K/year, with a family of 5 and hopefully growing... we are more than comfortable.
There are the poor, of course, but this area is a FAR cry from the wretched upstate notion you (and probably many other downstaters) have... the reputation rather than the reality. The pockets of poverty tend to stay within themsleves... poverty is an issue everywhere, not just upstate NY. (It IS unfortunate that those areas tend to be in direct view of all major highways... I can see how one would get that impression.) I'm not familiar with the other cities you mention so I won't speak as to their conditions. What I am familiar with is the state of Syracuse itself- that we have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the nation, that we are the only metro to have registered a substantial net job GROWTH besides NYC's, and that we are home to a growing number of educated professionals, who are finding that central NY is THE place to be. So much growth in the fields of healthcare, education, technology and real estate, both commercial and residential.
With all of that, I just have a hard time with the idea that upstate is so very poor. My husband would get the same pay in Ronkonkoma as he does here... but our COL is SO much less. His commission is based in an industry where, if local people didn't have a substantial disposable income, he would be paid a pittance. We live between the Adirondacks and the Finger Lakes (second largest winery region in the United States, growing in reputation by the year and second only to Napa Valley)- we have mountains to indulge our winter sports' love in and a breathtakingly beautiful view from just about anywhere... we're 4 hours from NYC and a short day trip to any major northeastern city, Toronto, Montreal... and *because* we live in an area with NORMAL incomes and a very low COL, we have the disposable income to do such things.
I think that people from the NYC metro have been dealt a poor hand, in being taught that the only worthwhile place in our ENTIRE state is right there... and that if you don't succeed there, it's time to move out of state. Upstate NY is an absolute jewel, if you care to find your own niche in it.
Not only that great post, the retirement thing is also a misnomer as this list shows a different view of the top 10 places to retire for those that were formerly in the military: https://www.usaa.com/inet/ent_utils/...URL_bestplaces (Look at #10)
What's interesting is that even with the information that website gave about the Syracuse area, they forgot that there is a Air National Guard Base with a small commissary, a Coast Guard Station in Oswego, there are plenty of government jobs for former military to transfer into and add to their retirement pension, that Syracuse University is very veteran friendly and the GI Bill can be put to great use at many of the colleges/universities in the area with one of the highest rates of higher education institutions per capita and veterans get reductions in taxes on their homes. So, it depends on a person's situation and their needs as well.
I have a "fr-enemy" (enemy-"friend") in Florida, who likes to throw NY's high real estate taxes in my face... no matter how much I make the comparison and show her that we actually pay LESS to live here than she pays to live there, she won't accept it. Her annual taxes are $2200. Mine are about $3800... I also live in a village, which increases our taxes (included in that $3800.) My house is MUCH nicer and I paid half of what she did. Her homeowner's insurance is nearly $4000/year. Ours is $485/year... and that's with more than double replacement value (to pay off the house, built another with no debt and furnish it.) Our groceries are less. Our utilities are less. Our vehicle taxes/fees are less. Our schools are better. Our public services are better. Yes- we have an income tax... but with children, we get a lot of that money back.
It all evens out. If one is able to use their sense of reason (which not all people use :P ), he can actually come out on top in New York. It sounds like you have that ability and I wish you a pleasant relocation!
Exactly what I was trying to say. It's not just property taxes that need to be considered. In FL, homeowner's insurance is a BIG deal in many areas. On top of that, add HOA fees.
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Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
Not only that great post, the retirement thing is also a misnomer as this list shows a different view of the top 10 places to retire for those that were formerly in the military: https://www.usaa.com/inet/ent_utils/...URL_bestplaces (Look at #10)
The article does state that Fort Drum is 80 miles away not to convienient for me. Even where I live Fort Lee in Petersburg Va is at least 45 minutes on the interstate each way. For what I could save it gets spend in gas, we really just do as well shopping local including Costco. We have never used military medical, they can keep it and as a retiree we are treated as the lowest priority at the facilities.
As I said before theses surveys are subjective and it depends on what a person is looking for.
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Originally Posted by proulxfamily
So true.
I have a "fr-enemy" (enemy-"friend") in Florida, who likes to throw NY's high real estate taxes in my face... no matter how much I make the comparison and show her that we actually pay LESS to live here than she pays to live there, she won't accept it. Her annual taxes are $2200. Mine are about $3800... I also live in a village, which increases our taxes (included in that $3800.) My house is MUCH nicer and I paid half of what she did. Her homeowner's insurance is nearly $4000/year. Ours is $485/year... and that's with more than double replacement value (to pay off the house, built another with no debt and furnish it.) Our groceries are less. Our utilities are less. Our vehicle taxes/fees are less. Our schools are better. Our public services are better. Yes- we have an income tax... but with children, we get a lot of that money back.
It all evens out. If one is able to use their sense of reason (which not all people use :P ), he can actually come out on top in New York. It sounds like you have that ability and I wish you a pleasant relocation!
I have always wondered why do you have to pay more because you live in a village? Are there services you receive vice living in a town? Or is it jsut paying for an extra layer of goverment that may not be needed?
The article does state that Fort Drum is 80 miles away not to convienient for me. Even where I live Fort Lee in Petersburg Va is at least 45 minutes on the interstate each way. For what I could save it gets spend in gas, we really just do as well shopping local including Costco. We have never used military medical, they can keep it and as a retiree we are treated as the lowest priority at the facilities.
As I said before theses surveys are subjective and it depends on what a person is looking for.
There is a BX at Hancock Air National Guard Base too. That article actually left some things out and I used to drive from Drum to Liverpool on a regular basis. Takes about an hour and 15 minutes, if that. It's a newer base, considering that it became what it is today in 1987 or so. I was stationed there for a little over 3 years and is very familiar with the commute and base. I also forgot that there are facilties at the Griffiss Air National Guard Base(formerly a regular Air Force Base until 1995), as well. That is about 35 minutes for Syracuse, give or take.
We don't have a Costco, but there is BJ's and Sam's Club.
I have always wondered why do you have to pay more because you live in a village? Are there services you receive vice living in a town? Or is it jsut paying for an extra layer of goverment that may not be needed?
It's an extra layer, but it depends on the costs and village. For instance, the village of Solvay has it's own power company. So, power is very cheap there. There are other villages around the state that are like that as well. New York Power Authority Municipal and Cooperative Customers Map
Also, villages might get very high police coverage or other services, but you have to pay for them. It's not like say PA, where the borough is a separate government entity.
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