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Upstate NY: better outdoor resources
South: better major cities
Upstate NY: better small towns
South: better homes and apts
Upstate NY: lower home prices
South: lower taxes
Upstate NY: better schools
South: better weather
Take your pick.
^^I think this is a good comparison between Upstate NY and the South in a nutshell. I'll also add that Upstate NY has less than ideal economic/fiscal politics but the South generally has worse and less tolerant social politics.
^^I think this is a good comparison between Upstate NY and the South in a nutshell. I'll also add that Upstate NY has less than ideal economic/fiscal politics but the South generally has worse and less tolerant social politics.
Excellent point and I agree 100%. Recent NC politics is becoming mind bogglingly (is that a word?) right wing. Laws to gerrymander districts to prevent college students from voting and laws to stop breastfeeding in public (something as natural as feeding a baby as God intended from the so called party of old fashioned values).
Also, the belief that the South is live and let live is also not really true anymore. Yes, the new legislature passed a law that you can now concealed carry a gun in a bar (because guns, rednecks, and alcohol are a great combination). Look at what they're doing to Eustace Conway, the last mountain man of the South who lives near Boone. They're basically trying to take his land through a series of nanny laws:
I'll say that Upstate NY doesn't have the strongest job market, but after living in California, Colorado, SoFla I can tell you the job markets aren't necessarily stellar there either. Having more jobs doesn't necessarily mean better opportunity either. NYC has more accounting jobs, Boston has more biotech jobs, and San Francisco/Seattle have more IT jobs than Upstate, yet competition for those jobs is so utterly fierce in those areas that you're more likely to find that kind of job in Upstate NY
You know I've always thought that upstate NY geography can drive growth..perhaps tech growth. The South has that famous 'Research Triangle' which appears a success. I'm curious as to why this has not happened upstate. There's plenty of land, plenty of space, plenty of room to grow. Is there a fear that it may turn out like Wild West development then? And regarding infrastructure I just don't see why it would difficult to get it up there. If they build, they will come and jobs could be built as well.
You and I have stressed the idea that HOA's are not required in the South in probably 10+ posts. No one here will ever accept that. According to them, the South is nothing more than newly built developments, all surrounding an artificial lake. Anyone who has spent significant time down South knows that's not true, but try to convince a Northerner of that...
Your point about flood insurance is dead on. It goes by the FEMA maps. A member on this forum was recently flooded out in Upstate. Using the requirement to get flood insurance as a reason not to move down South is a silly argument. Also, homeowners insurance in the South is cheap as long as you don't live on the coast. Makes sense, right? Wait to see what homeowners insurance in Sandy ravaged areas are going to be. One of the reasons I moved away from the coast (and I was renting) was that my rent was going up drastically.
I'm very pro-Upstate. I love it there. The Upstate counties of Sullivan, Orange, Rockland, etc, I'm not a huge fan of, due to their proximity to NYC which means high prices but nothing in return. But the real Upstate, Central and Western NY, and the Capitol Region and north, is a greatly overlooked but wonderful part of this country. That said, no one is going to tell me that its cheaper to live there than it is to live in most of the South. Take a city like Rochester or Buffalo, and compare it a city equidistant from the ocean (that matters for home pricing more than anything), and compare overall cost of living to someplace in TN or KY, western NC or Upstate SC, or western VA, you WILL be living cheaper in the South.
Question is, is that part of the South better than Upstate? I would answer no, personally, because there is more culture in Upstate NY than those areas. However, considering the fact that you can live in metro Rochester, Syracuse, or Buffalo for about the same price *overall* as metros like Atlanta, Raleigh, or Charlotte, makes the case for the South pretty strong. That is reality and the population stats bear that out. As I see it:
Upstate NY: better outdoor resources
South: better major cities
Upstate NY: better small towns
South: better homes and apts
Upstate NY: lower home prices
South: lower taxes
Upstate NY: better schools
South: better weather
Take your pick.
It will depend on what you are looking for. I think the comparative lack of sprawl up here may be a plus, but you may be more apt to find a nice neighborhood that is diverse in parts of the South. Or median salaries/pay may be higher up here, but certain industries may be more common in certain parts of the South. Aspects like lifestyle, period of life, culture and interests, among other things, may help decide which way a person will go.
You know I've always thought that upstate NY geography can drive growth..perhaps tech growth. The South has that famous 'Research Triangle' which appears a success. I'm curious as to why this has not happened upstate. There's plenty of land, plenty of space, plenty of room to grow. Is there a fear that it may turn out like Wild West development then? And regarding infrastructure I just don't see why it would difficult to get it up there. If they build, they will come and jobs could be built as well.
I think what has helped the Research Triangle is the close proximity of major state and private research universities(UNC, NC State and Duke), where as you don't have that up here or if you create a similar corridor, it may be stretched out between different metros or a larger land area. I guess you could do something between say Cornell, Binghamton and Syracuse, but each are about an hour or so away from each other. Maybe U of Buffalo teaming up with U of Rochester and RIT could work or UAlbany and RPI in the Capital Region. I think it could be done, but the environment for growth and innovation must be there.
You know I've always thought that upstate NY geography can drive growth..perhaps tech growth. The South has that famous 'Research Triangle' which appears a success. I'm curious as to why this has not happened upstate. There's plenty of land, plenty of space, plenty of room to grow. Is there a fear that it may turn out like Wild West development then? And regarding infrastructure I just don't see why it would difficult to get it up there. If they build, they will come and jobs could be built as well.
You need to create something unique for yourself. North Carolina has the research triangle, San Francisco area has Silicon Valley, Seatle has Microsoft and Starbucks. Find what can work for your area and stop viewing it as "why this has not happened upstate". Start simple can you get 2 agencies, towns, schools to even work together? Can you create a zone where buisness can experiment without overt regulations, taxes or union interference? If you answer yes than thats a start you go from there.
You need to create something unique for yourself. North Carolina has the research triangle, San Francisco area has Silicon Valley, Seatle has Microsoft and Starbucks. Find what can work for your area and stop viewing it as "why this has not happened upstate". Start simple can you get 2 agencies, towns, schools to even work together? Can you create a zone where buisness can experiment without overt regulations, taxes or union interference? If you answer yes than thats a start you go from there.
This and is the infrastructure in place in terms of air fares, highways, marketing and an educated populace. There are many things that are a part of having a good business climate and that is something that has to be figured out. I don't think location is an issue and is a great advantage in Upstate NY, but more aspects like that have to be brought too.
$800 a year in taxes, what?? Well idk about South Carolina, but good luck trying to find $800/year taxes in Florida, Texas, or Colorado. Even <$1,000 in yearly property taxes is not the norm in "low-tax" states unless you're in an extremely rural area.
However, I'll agree that proper income in relation the high COL seems to have become a problem for some people in the NYC metro.
The house I built in SC in 2010 has property taxes of $834. Residents don't pay school taxes. This isn't even in a rural area. SC has odd property taxes. Where I lived there were dirt roads all over and roads that hadn't been paved in 20+ years. You get what you pay for!
This and is the infrastructure in place in terms of air fares, highways, marketing and an educated populace. There are many things that are a part of having a good business climate and that is something that has to be figured out. I don't think location is an issue and is a great advantage in Upstate NY, but more aspects like that have to be brought too.
None of this matters, you are trying to do is create something...what I don't know but highways/marketing are not a concern. Once the purpose is created and starts to grow then the infastructure issue may come up if it has manufacturing. Educated populace is good but a large amount may not be needed.
Remember the poster lamented the lack of a research triangle type area, define first what is being created then move forward.
None of this matters, you are trying to do is create something...what I don't know but highways/marketing are not a concern. Once the purpose is created and starts to grow then the infastructure issue may come up if it has manufacturing. Educated populace is good but a large amount may not be needed.
Remember the poster lamented the lack of a research triangle type area, define first what is being created then move forward.
It will depend on what is being made, but infrastructure plays a part in terms of transportation, institutions, etc. If it was all about taxes, unions(or lack there of) and regulations, then a state like Mississippi would be booming. I'm just saying that other things could help attract businesses or help start growth through innovative measures. Silicon Valley could be a good example for Upstate NY, given where it is.
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