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So I haven't read through the whole thing and it looks like it is focusing on NYC but the headline does grab attention and made me think of my friends and family in New York state and unfortunately I see some truth to this.
Somewhere in the last couple years I've noticed I really lost my grip on the middle class.
The price of everything has gone crazy. A new pickup like the one I have is 35k. A trip to the grocery store can cost 200 bucks. It cost 20 to fill the gas can for the lawn mower.
I look at what jobs pay around here and what things cost and I'm glad I'm not 20.
I do think America will get back up again though. NY I believe is done for along with afew other states but I think America will be ok.
So I haven't read through the whole thing and it looks like it is focusing on NYC but the headline does grab attention and made me think of my friends and family in New York state and unfortunately I see some truth to this.
What do you guys think?????????????
Several things I take away from this: when I'm in NYC, I see TONS of Asians selling things on the street for cash- bootleg videos, CD's, jewelry, etc. So, I'd say that the reason that Asians are falling behind Hispanics is because they don't report income. The poorest town in NY is Kiryas Joel, a Hasidic enclave that doesn't report any of their income. So, I take a lot of stats from the city and downstate with a grain of salt. Also, many Hispanics are in the building trades, which are flat now.
I've said it before, I think the NYC metro is the toughest place to live in the US. Its overwhelmingly bad living situation for most people except the super rich. From the cost, to the attitude, to the traffic, to the mindset of everyone crammed into a small area but doing whatever they want without regard to others (read the NYC forum), its just a hassle. I'm glad I live 2 hours away!
Somewhere in the last couple years I've noticed I really lost my grip on the middle class.
The price of everything has gone crazy. A new pickup like the one I have is 35k. A trip to the grocery store can cost 200 bucks. It cost 20 to fill the gas can for the lawn mower.
I look at what jobs pay around here and what things cost and I'm glad I'm not 20.
I do think America will get back up again though. NY I believe is done for along with afew other states but I think America will be ok.
I actually think NYS will struggle for a while but in the end, will be ok. I was surprised to see VT with the 2nd lowest unemployment rate in the US. I mean, its a great state but not known for good tax rates or being business friendly. Perhaps it works through small businesses being successful in the face of the rest of America which seems to turning towards "Walmartization".
I am seeing such a shift of people being satisfied with less, and more interested in owning less (less house, less cable, less car) than ever before. I know quite a few people who have no TV, or use an antenna for free tv. Cable is hurting and it seems to be an indicator of where we are going. VT always had this lifestyle, and I think NYS can follow that as well. I don't think we will have any choice.
In terms of the second article, I noticed the same thing, but it did note that even for Whites, mobility in Atlanta was low. So, it may be a matter of social infrastructure, among other things as well.
I also agree Vintage with your last point about people being happy with less. I'm kind of like that right now by choice. I think the last recession has a lot to do with that.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 04-30-2014 at 04:53 PM..
BUT!! The reason is rising costs not a Mother Earth News lifestyle. Mostly taxes. I've actually increased my income every year except past during the recession. This current year is on it's way to being my best ever. I had one day off in April. I made more money last month then I did in a year when I started working full time.
And yet we can't cut expenses fast enough. We used to eat out once a week. Now it's been two months and counting. I used to buy new cars now mine is 14 years old. I collect, and sometimes use, tools. I can't remember the last tool I bought.
The money goes to taxes. And heat.
My city is talking about a massive tax increase. If it goes through I will have to walk. I'm already working 7 days a week. Something has to give.
Sean-I know what you mean about rising costs, my grocery bills shot up 100 and so did my National Grid bill.
There is no way I would buy a new car here-the salt destroys them. You might as well throw money down on the street.
I am still running my furnace, we switched to wood to save costs.
Vintage- when I lived in Colorado we had new neighbors move in from NYC, as I got to know them better I asked her if she missed living in NYC-she said that is not living-those people are not living-they are only surviving.
New York City, but even NYS to a certain extent, is not an easy place to live. I haven't lived in NYS for that long as an adult, but I lived in VT (on the NYS border) for a year. Its tough. Everyone I knew there struggled to make beyond minimum wage. Heating costs were through the roof, and homes were not tight. A Saturday afternoon meant chopping wood, or you didn't stay warm that winter because heating oil was $1200 a tankful and that could be your entire months pay. It was that simple.
But what I noticed most was that no one spent money on anything. It was very similar to that show Downeast Dickering. People bargained and rebuilt everything. People would duct tape radiator hoses on their car. Women's husbands would give them haircuts. Most people had furniture that would make Archie Bunker's recliner look new. No one, I mean no one, drove a car that was newer than 10 years.
Car battery dead? Call Joe at the junkyard and get a used one, MacGyver it to fit, and it'll get you another 6 months. $10 or trade for beer. Natural Light beer.
I've heard from many people that a lot of Upstate is the same way. I lived 2 miles from it, it sure seemed that way. I understand this lifestyle because I live it right now, but how much more can you save? How can an economy grow if no one is spending any money?
I've lived in NC for 3 seasons, winter, spring, and summer. Fall, from what I hear, was the best season there anyway and not to be missed, but I did. Anyway, just my experience but it was easy living. Heat bills were low, electric bills were low, and rents were in the $500-700 range for a really nice, maintenance free place. Many had pools and hot tubs that could be enjoyed from May to September. Bike trails were everywhere and people were generally happy. The sun was out a lot. Strangely, no one had solar panels on their house like here in NJ- because electric rates were too low to make them worthwhile. Saturday meant going to play tennis at the park or swimming in your backyard pool.
Point being, no one was scrounging around looking for parts for an '87 Buick. If you needed a hose, you bought one new. Unless you had only $300 a month for living expenses, you didn't live in a 60's garden apartment, in a polluted area, with wall unit A/C sucking in exhaust fumes from the highway outside. Up here, that's pretty much all there is, and you pay $1200 a month for it.
On the other end of the spectrum, no one was killing themselves in endless traffic, or constantly checking stock quotes, or paying $12 to cross a bridge to get to a city to park your car for $20 a day. Tughill, your friend put it perfect: in the NYC metro, you're not living , you're surviving.
New York City, but even NYS to a certain extent, is not an easy place to live. I haven't lived in NYS for that long as an adult, but I lived in VT (on the NYS border) for a year. Its tough. Everyone I knew there struggled to make beyond minimum wage. Heating costs were through the roof, and homes were not tight. A Saturday afternoon meant chopping wood, or you didn't stay warm that winter because heating oil was $1200 a tankful and that could be your entire months pay. It was that simple.
But what I noticed most was that no one spent money on anything. It was very similar to that show Downeast Dickering. People bargained and rebuilt everything. People would duct tape radiator hoses on their car. Women's husbands would give them haircuts. Most people had furniture that would make Archie Bunker's recliner look new. No one, I mean no one, drove a car that was newer than 10 years.
Car battery dead? Call Joe at the junkyard and get a used one, MacGyver it to fit, and it'll get you another 6 months. $10 or trade for beer. Natural Light beer.
I've heard from many people that a lot of Upstate is the same way. I lived 2 miles from it, it sure seemed that way. I understand this lifestyle because I live it right now, but how much more can you save? How can an economy grow if no one is spending any money?
I've lived in NC for 3 seasons, winter, spring, and summer. Fall, from what I hear, was the best season there anyway and not to be missed, but I did. Anyway, just my experience but it was easy living. Heat bills were low, electric bills were low, and rents were in the $500-700 range for a really nice, maintenance free place. Many had pools and hot tubs that could be enjoyed from May to September. Bike trails were everywhere and people were generally happy. The sun was out a lot. Strangely, no one had solar panels on their house like here in NJ- because electric rates were too low to make them worthwhile. Saturday meant going to play tennis at the park or swimming in your backyard pool.
Point being, no one was scrounging around looking for parts for an '87 Buick. If you needed a hose, you bought one new. Unless you had only $300 a month for living expenses, you didn't live in a 60's garden apartment, in a polluted area, with wall unit A/C sucking in exhaust fumes from the highway outside. Up here, that's pretty much all there is, and you pay $1200 a month for it.
On the other end of the spectrum, no one was killing themselves in endless traffic, or constantly checking stock quotes, or paying $12 to cross a bridge to get to a city to park your car for $20 a day. Tughill, your friend put it perfect: in the NYC metro, you're not living , you're surviving.
Are you talking about NY State in general or NYC, because the apartment that I previously lived in was similar to what you lived in and none of this was the case?
Are you talking about NY State in general or NYC, because the apartment that I previously lived in was similar to what you lived in and none of this was the case?
Actually, I meant NJ. I realize that most apartments don't cost $1200 a month in Upstate.
I don't believe that I ever said where I lived in NC, beside the town. Are you sure it was me you're referring to?
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