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for now a pure electric car is a novelty. we dont have the proper infrastructure yet for a practical pure electric car. i hope one day we will though.
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Originally Posted by Lux Hauler
What do you mean by that?
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Originally Posted by 1200RT
I think that answer is pretty obvious?
Electric car technology has come a long way, but its far from being able to be used by the masses. I haven't studied the Leaf very much, but 100 miles is GETTING CLOSE to practical, but still far from it.
The problem with electric cars, as mentioned above, is that they cannot be refilled (recharged) quickly. A gas car, refilling in 10 minutes or so (usually less) has more or less unlimited range.
Here in CA, we have "electric vehicle charging stations" scattered about, but they are far from everywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Hauler
No the answer is not obvious. What infrastructure? Honestly do you think you could drive more than 100 miles without there being an electrical outlet? We are talking typical 120/240 line here... Are you afraid the grid will collapse or something? If you can power an air conditioner over night then I think your question is answered.
the problems are in fact multiple. there is a decided lack of charging stations for one. for another the electrical grid is not set up to handle a huge number of electric cars being charged at the same time. you will run into a situation of having rolling black outs, especially in the summerwhen electrical loads are the highest because of all the air conditioning units being run.
in small numbers, the current electrical grid will handle about 500,000 electric cars being charged at the same time, more than that however and the grid needs to be substantially updated.
a third problem is that it takes far too long to recharge an electric car for it to be truly viable. 8-16 hours mean that an electric car is a city car only for now. when charge rates fall below 30-45 minutes for a full charge, and driving range gets above 200 miles, then you will have a practical electric car for nearly all of your needs.
I would LOVE to have a Nissan Leaf. It would be a perfect second car. It's too pricey for my budget at this time, but of all the hybrids, electics, diesels, etc, the Leaf would be my first choice.
People are assuming that these quoted mile ranges are achievable in all conditions... I assure you they are estimates under ideal conditions. If you have a heavy foot, need the heater or AC, or have the vehicle heavily loaded expect to run out of juice much faster.
in small numbers, the current electrical grid will handle about 500,000 electric cars being charged at the same time, more than that however and the grid needs to be substantially updated.
Only if they were charging in the day. Conceptually there is a lot of capacity overnight.
in small numbers, the current electrical grid will handle about 500,000 electric cars being charged at the same time, more than that however and the grid needs to be substantially updated.
Very interested in your information source, please share. Thanks!
Very interested in your information source, please share. Thanks!
Here is one article but I have seen a number that state the grid is inadequate in most locations...
"Turning on two or three Level 2 chargers could burn out the street-level transformers that are the distribution grid's weakest link. Most utilities employ undersized transformers, which are designed to cool overnight. Without time to cool, sustained excess current will eventually cook a transformer's copper windings, causing a short and blacking out the local loads it serves."
"There are 220 million private cars in the US. If the complete fleet would be plugged in at the same time it would need 34,000 gigawatts, or 34 times the existing electricity generation capacity of the US. This will never happen, but it compares to "only" a 65 percent increase of the power capacity in the slow-charging scenario above. A large fleet of fast-charging cars will melt the grid.
Charging just 6,500 of these vehicles (0.003 %) simultaneously in 10 minutes will require an energy output comparable to that of one large power plant.
If one in a thousand of these cars (220,000 vehicles or 0.1 %) is charged simultaneously in 10 minutes they will need 34 gigawatts. And one in a 100 cars charged simultaneously will require a total energy output of 340 gigawatts. The question is not how many cars will be charged together on average during the day, but how many of them will be charged together at any possible moment of the day, month or year."
the problems are in fact multiple. there is a decided lack of charging stations for one. for another the electrical grid is not set up to handle a huge number of electric cars being charged at the same time. you will run into a situation of having rolling black outs, especially in the summerwhen electrical loads are the highest because of all the air conditioning units being run.
in small numbers, the current electrical grid will handle about 500,000 electric cars being charged at the same time, more than that however and the grid needs to be substantially updated.
a third problem is that it takes far too long to recharge an electric car for it to be truly viable. 8-16 hours mean that an electric car is a city car only for now. when charge rates fall below 30-45 minutes for a full charge, and driving range gets above 200 miles, then you will have a practical electric car for nearly all of your needs.
Soemtimes i wonder what automotive forums woudl have been like back in 1900, had they been around. A lot of peopel like you complaining that horses were better becaeu the infrastructure is there. My god, there's not agas staion of every street corner for those newfangled automobiles. I'm not going to have one for decades until I can get fuel everywhere instead of just let my horse eat at any convenient meadow."
As for the "grid" not handling a substantial amount of electric cars without being upgraded, how many electric cars do you think can be manufactured and sold right now? I means seriously, how many examples of even the best selling car model are being sold nationwide? How many of the AVERAGE new car model are being sold annually? Even if a manufacturer like Nissan started mass producing these things next week, how long would it take before there would be a "substantial" amount of EVs on the road?
Way too long to make how the CURRENTLY EXISTING grid can handle it be an issue to argue about.
Here is one article but I have seen a number that state the grid is inadequate in most locations...
"Turning on two or three Level 2 chargers could burn out the street-level transformers that are the distribution grid's weakest link. Most utilities employ undersized transformers, which are designed to cool overnight. Without time to cool, sustained excess current will eventually cook a transformer's copper windings, causing a short and blacking out the local loads it serves."
"There are 220 million private cars in the US. If the complete fleet would be plugged in at the same time it would need 34,000 gigawatts, or 34 times the existing electricity generation capacity of the US. This will never happen, but it compares to "only" a 65 percent increase of the power capacity in the slow-charging scenario above. A large fleet of fast-charging cars will melt the grid.
Charging just 6,500 of these vehicles (0.003 %) simultaneously in 10 minutes will require an energy output comparable to that of one large power plant.
If one in a thousand of these cars (220,000 vehicles or 0.1 %) is charged simultaneously in 10 minutes they will need 34 gigawatts. And one in a 100 cars charged simultaneously will require a total energy output of 340 gigawatts. The question is not how many cars will be charged together on average during the day, but how many of them will be charged together at any possible moment of the day, month or year."
The Electric Power Resource Institute (EPRI) estimates that this country has the ability to support 50 million EVs without building any more power plants.
Southern California Edison (SCE) estimated back in 2004 that it has enough off-peak capacity to refuel up to 2 million cars, 25 percent of the area's automobiles. SCE estimates it will only need to add 200 megawatts of capacity by 2008 to accommodate EVs.
"Mark Duvall of the Electric Power Research Institute, a research outfit for the electric utility industry, says having 1 million on U.S. roads in eight years is an achievable goal. Just last week, Volkswagen CEO Stefan Jacoby estimated in a speech at UCLA that it could take 35 years for the world to fully embrace electric vehicles."
One million EVs in 8 years. that's less than 1/2 of 1 percent of the US private vehicle fleet. I just don't see that taxing the grid.
Soemtimes i wonder what automotive forums woudl have been like back in 1900, had they been around. A lot of peopel like you complaining that horses were better becaeu the infrastructure is there. My god, there's not agas staion of every street corner for those newfangled automobiles. I'm not going to have one for decades until I can get fuel everywhere instead of just let my horse eat at any convenient meadow."
As for the "grid" not handling a substantial amount of electric cars without being upgraded, how many electric cars do you think can be manufactured and sold right now? I means seriously, how many examples of even the best selling car model are being sold nationwide? How many of the AVERAGE new car model are being sold annually? Even if a manufacturer like Nissan started mass producing these things next week, how long would it take before there would be a "substantial" amount of EVs on the road?
Way too long to make how the CURRENTLY EXISTING grid can handle it be an issue to argue about.
I think thats the point everyone is conveniently ignoring. Do people actually believe that all of a sudden there will be 220 million EV purchases? It will be decades before the EV goes mainstream and power companies will gladly meet the demand... Just as any other type of energy company has done in the past. These companies aren't worried, they're licking their chops!
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