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OK just to clear things up, the night when she said please don't cuss in front of my kids, I said "ass" and I was reading a text out loud that we all received from one of the other friends. She said I said another word, and I have no idea what it was. Maybe it was the s word that rhymes with pit, who knows.
I probably do say F at the grocery store, just sayin'.
In a world of Kardashians, be an Audrey Hepburn. Start there.
She had every right to tell you not to cuss in front of her kids, especially since apparently you were oblivious to the inappropriateness of that.
And if you use the F word in line in front of me at the grocery store, I may tell you in front of God and everyone else that I don't appreciate having to hear your foul mouth, even if I don't have a kid with me.
As I always like to say to all of you in my posts, thank you all, very much for all your responses and I appreciate them and thank you for your time and thought (even the ones that take the answer so far and calling me pathologically rude and self-centered based on one little story).
Just an update, I had a private talk with her and told her I apologize for the cursing and if there's anything else I've done, I apologize and if she could tell me what it was I may have done, but she for some reason is keeping tight-lipped over whatever it was that caused her to decide to stop hosting our group. I threw out some ideas and reasons why we could develop our friendship and I feel like all I got was a stoneface. Maybe she was hoping I'd apologize for more, but I really have no idea what. This is the woman that I wrote about in a previous post, about her dogs, and how I can't stand them and I won't pretend that I like them.
As to the suggestions of leaving all of them, that's not a viable option in my head right now. These women are my life right now. They are my friends. We do things together a lot and text each other all day long. It's just that I'm having this clash with the one. But hey, at this point, I reached out, did the olive branch thing, brought her a gift last night, I don't know what more I can do. I hope that this doesn't sour our relationship as 4 friends.
You don't like her and she doesn't like you. She doesn't want to get together with you anymore and I can't for the life of me imagine why you want to get together with her.
Surely you can have a relationship with the women that you actually LIKE in the group without involving her. I'm sure they would appreciate not getting involved in your personal DRAAAAAAMAAAA. If they're the sort that enjoy draaaaaaaamaaaa, then I guess you just need to accept the fact that y'all are all feeding off of this. Hopefully that's not the case. If it is, I feel a lot sorrier for the woman you're all smack talking about than I do for any of the rest of the bunch.
Why do you have to be "4 friends?" Why can't you simply be friends with the ones you get along with and leave the others alone?
As I always like to say to all of you in my posts, thank you all, very much for all your responses and I appreciate them and thank you for your time and thought (even the ones that take the answer so far and calling me pathologically rude and self-centered based on one little story).
No I said you were pathologically self-centered. The rudeness is just a symptom of that. I actually DO know enough about you to have this opinion and it is consistent with your pathology to both fail to correctly perceive the message and disagree with it. The failure to understand it is necessary in order to disagree with it, and maintain your delusional opinions about yourself. It's all very standard and boilerplate. Everyone can see the addict, except the addict. It's (within the context of addiction) quite normal. The only question is whether or not you are going to see the truth of it, and whether or not you are going to change.
And also, as a further follow-up, your failure to mention me openly is passive-aggressive. You don't want to get into the specific details of the situation (where the flaws in your perceptions and understanding will be made more obvious), but at the same time you can't let the criticism go as it undermines your (delusional) belief in who you are. Too threatening and demands response. I hope this does you some good, someday. I believe that most addicts are able to maintain the mental "cocoon" they need to maintain their addiction because they exhaust the efforts of the people around them that know them, care about them and want to help. This is a unique opportunity for you. A total stranger is telling you the exact same things that the people around you have been telling you for years. You have a tail. Again, the only question is whether or not you are going to admit that you also see it, and do something about it, or if you are going to continue lying and trying to persuade those around you that it does not exist.
No I said you were pathologically self-centered. The rudeness is just a symptom of that. I actually DO know enough about you to have this opinion and it is consistent with your pathology to both fail to correctly perceive the message and disagree with it. The failure to understand it is necessary in order to disagree with it, and maintain your delusional opinions about yourself. It's all very standard and boilerplate. Everyone can see the addict, except the addict. It's (within the context of addiction) quite normal. The only question is whether or not you are going to see the truth of it, and whether or not you are going to change.
And also, as a further follow-up, your failure to mention me openly is passive-aggressive. You don't want to get into the specific details of the situation (where the flaws in your perceptions and understanding will be made more obvious), but at the same time you can't let the criticism go as it undermines your (delusional) belief in who you are. Too threatening and demands response. I hope this does you some good, someday. I believe that most addicts are able to maintain the mental "cocoon" they need to maintain their addiction because they exhaust the efforts of the people around them that know them, care about them and want to help. This is a unique opportunity for you. A total stranger is telling you the exact same things that the people around you have been telling you for years. You have a tail. Again, the only question is whether or not you are going to admit that you also see it, and do something about it, or if you are going to continue lying and trying to persuade those around you that it does not exist.
I am unable to rep this post again as I repped the author for his/her first response to the OP. I concur 100% with this.
OP, if you have gone through any of the 12-step programs, then you should be familiar with the term "dry drunk". It matters not whether your addiction is alcohol or other drugs (note that alcohol is a drug). It matters only that, while you may no longer be using your drug of choice, your behavior has not changed. You still have stinkin' thinkin'. Please take Mac_Donalds' comments to heart. I believe s/he was direct and clear with you without attacking and I suspect that Mac_Donalds has had some experience in working with substance abusers.
Dry drunks are as common as drinking coffee at AA meetings - almost every single abuser goes through this stage. I have not seen one who hasn't.
There's another group that offers help to women substance abusers: its basis is that we CAN become strong, competent women and you will find support through Women for Sobriety. It's affirmation based in that you can become that whole person by "faking it 'til you make it." Give it a try.
As I always like to say to all of you in my posts, thank you all, very much for all your responses and I appreciate them and thank you for your time and thought (even the ones that take the answer so far and calling me pathologically rude and self-centered based on one little story).
Just an update, I had a private talk with her and told her I apologize for the cursing and if there's anything else I've done, I apologize and if she could tell me what it was I may have done, but she for some reason is keeping tight-lipped over whatever it was that caused her to decide to stop hosting our group. I threw out some ideas and reasons why we could develop our friendship and I feel like all I got was a stoneface. Maybe she was hoping I'd apologize for more, but I really have no idea what. This is the woman that I wrote about in a previous post, about her dogs, and how I can't stand them and I won't pretend that I like them.
As to the suggestions of leaving all of them, that's not a viable option in my head right now. These women are my life right now. They are my friends. We do things together a lot and text each other all day long. It's just that I'm having this clash with the one. But hey, at this point, I reached out, did the olive branch thing, brought her a gift last night, I don't know what more I can do. I hope that this doesn't sour our relationship as 4 friends.
I disagree with the posters who responded with criticizing you and also with those whose attitude is just "drop them." It's not that I'm not judgmental; I'm actually pretty damned judgmental most of the time. But I see this issue in a certain context, and I think others are forgetting or ignoring the context of the relationship with these friends.
Yes, if someone you were friendly with from work or some other social arena unfairly scolded you publicly, I would probably also say "She was wrong. Drop her and move on." If someone you were friends with from work or some other social arena cursed in front of your kids when you had asked them not to, I'd probably also say "she was wrong. Drop her and move on."
But from what you are saying this is a group of women who came together for mutual support specifically because they are all in recovery (presumably form substance use). This is different from an "ordinary" friendship. I've worked for many years with people who are in recovery from mental illness, substance use, and some with both. Setting up a supportive yet mutually accountable support system is essential for many in that situation. Yes, you become friends, but you are also providing support to each other, identifying triggers and coping skills with each other, and, hopefully, calling each other on your old BS. People who are together in a support system often hurt each other, p*ss each other off, confront each other, help each other, disappoint each other, etc. But the whole point is that these are people trying out a new way of living life, and they are gonna screw up some things as they learn.
Being in recovery does not and should not excuse "bad behavior" but it does help all parties to understand each other more. And as long as all parties are in agreement to be honest with each other, and stick to certain "rules" of the supportive relationship, then you really should not drop someone and walk away like you would in another type of friendship. Sure, as an educated professional with a good sense of social "rules" I know when I should and should not curse, and I basically follow those rules in whatever setting I'm in. But I totally understand how a person who may have been in years of addiction, with all the depression, trauma, fear, and instability that can go along with it, might not have yet learned those "rules" of social appropriateness. But you're learning and you're a work in progress. Similarly, I tend to keep my judgmental thoughts about others to myself, and if I do have to call someone out for something, I know to do it privately behind closed doors, out of respect for the person, but I can totally understand how a person coming out of years of addiction might not have gotten that lesson yet. she's a work in progress too.
So OP, I agree with you. Don't simply drop this woman impulsively, but continue in the supportive relationship as long as its mutually helpful. You don't have to agree on everything. You don't have to even like each other's personality. Recovery is your "job" right now, and these are co-workers in that same job. I can work well with lots of co-workers that I have little in common with, or who I really don't like personally, as long as we all do our job.
I don't think friendships should have to be so hard. These things either work, or they don't. Creating drama is dysfunctional and why bother?
My friendships are not high maintenance, nor do we walk on egg shells around each other. Yes the F bomb surfaces on occasion, guilty as well, but not around children. That's a legitimate complaint.
When you have such serious issues as recovery to deal with then irritating things can easily become magnified. I would suggest that you try to surround yourself with people who are not in such a fragile state for now and learn to live like those of us in a sober world. It may change your perspective and help you recover easier.
Why do you want to be around people who may very well be on a slippery slope and relapse? Try a different way for awhile and good luck.
Honestly, I see nothing wrong with calling someone out right then and there for swearing in front of a child. I am a little loose lipped and have done it and been called out and felt terrible. I apologized on the spot. It was my bad, not theirs. If you or I aren't being respectful enough to watch our mouths in front of children, we don't deserve to be coddled. If it is a trauma trigger then apologize and in private, share that with her and your willingness to try and correct your behavior and if in future she could let you know in another way.
I don't know what the other thing was that you got called out on...want to share?
But then you go and start gossiping about the person who is hosting your fellowship...kindly...every stinking week. Thats a lot of work to host so much. Gossiping is triangulating and its wrong in a group of friends. If you had an issue, go talk to her. If you need to vent, journal or talk to a friend outside the group. And your dismissive "that is how I am" shows a great lack of maturity. This is something you have to work on if you want to maintain friends.
I'm sorry, but in my eyes your friend walks away smelling like roses and you look like a 15 year old mean girl.
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