Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I came from union-heavy country just west of WI, and I basically fled it as soon as I got out of school. Way, way back in the day, unions were probably necessary (back when manufacturing was heavy and uneducated immigrant labor was used as a primary resource), but that day has LONG SINCE PASSED.
I remember just after 9/11, public sector employees in MN went on strike to protest the fact that they weren't getting a 6% raise. The gov at the time ("Jesse the Body") told them they were getting 3.5% raise (generous compared to most people's COL increases at the time), and that was that. So, literally the same week as 9/11, they went on strike. Bunch of classless goons.
I cannot express strongly enough my support for "Walker, Wisconsin Ranger." I think what he's doing is great, especially for the people who are in those unions. They have to pay a little bit more for their retirement and health care, but under his proposal, they won't have to pay union dues, which will put money in their pocket to make up for the cost differences to them. It's actually a good deal for them, considering the fact that the alternative is to be laid off, but some of them (the protestors) are too short-sighted or willingly ignorant to see it.
And thank goodness NC is not a heavy union state. If it were, you can bet money I wouldn't be living and working and paying taxes here.
I would also like to add that it isn't the unions that are killing businesses, it's greed from upper management and bad trade agreements that are causing our companies to shut down and sending our jobs overseas! I sure wish the place I work for had a union, b/c we the employees are treated like crap and if we had a union in place, things would be different!
If the company you work for treats you like crap then quit and find yourself a better job. Unions are just like every other liberal concept, designed to "take care" of people who can't or won't take care of themselves. Take on some personal responsibility for where you work and how much money you make rather than whining about it and hoping a union comes along and makes your job better for you. I used to work for a company that treated me like crap so I went back to school and now I'm self employed and make 60k a year. Life is what you make it, not what some else gives you.
Corporate greed is the ONLY reason you have a job. If that company you work for wasn't trying to make money you'd be unemployed. And the ONLY reason you work there is to get a pay check. I guess that's personal greed on your part huh.
If the company you work for treats you like crap then quit and find yourself a better job. Unions are just like every other liberal concept, designed to "take care" of people who can't or won't take care of themselves. Take on some personal responsibility for where you work and how much money you make rather than whining about it and hoping a union comes along and makes your job better for you. I used to work for a company that treated me like crap so I went back to school and now I'm self employed and make 60k a year. Life is what you make it, not what some else gives you.
Corporate greed is the ONLY reason you have a job. If that company you work for wasn't trying to make money you'd be unemployed. And the ONLY reason you work there is to get a pay check. I guess that's personal greed on your part huh.
Oh, don't worry, I'm currently looking as we speak! I'm definataly outta there before Summer, BELIEVE THAT!
I am from NC, so I have little experience with unions. But from what I understand, unions are responsible for a 40-hour workweek, weekends, and workers comp when folks get hurt on the job. I think ANYBODY can take ANY good thing too far and misuse it, and I think it's the same with unions. The bottom-line for companies is making a profit. They really are not concerned about working conditions, or quality of life. If left unchecked, these companies would pay people pennies, and toss them the minute they are injured. I can definitely see the need for unions.
Also, WI folks that are protesting have said several times they are willing to pay a portion of their insurance and pension; what THEY are fighting for is giving up their right of collective bargaining.
Box of Zip Disks--that was an interesting (albeit disturbing!) history lesson. I did not know that. Wow.
prwfromnc--I agree with you. The thing that is REALLY destroying our economy is the outsourcing. We CAN'T compete with a company that pays workers pennies an hour. There's just no way. Entire industries have been distroyed and will never return. Personally, I suspect that our economy is damaged permanently, and will not return. I also suspect it's pretty much the "end" to a prosperous middle class. But this is just my theory.
Michigan is a heavy union state and has double digit unemployment.
North Carolina is not a untion state and has double digit unemployment.
Obviously, the argument that unions are destroying our nation is not based on anything beyond the perception that "unions are bad for business."
the unemployment rate is not some number that magically tells the whole picture of economic health and growth. It is one metric among many, and it tells you a small part of the story... not enough to pretend like Michigan and North Carolina are in comparable situations.
Unemployed workers have been vacating states like Michigan and Ohio for quite some time, because wages are too high, and because unions have too much power. So the firms shut down and move to places with cheaper labor, where they can hire and fire as they please. The unemployed workers move south, enter the population here in North Carolina without jobs, so it raises our unemployment rate too.
North Carolina has had job losses, but it is related to the slowing of growth industries. Jobs we've lost were in construction and commodities (mining, ag, forestry), which are cyclical anyways -- rather than the rust belt's unionized manufacturing that was driven extinct.
Private unions are OK with me, even though I avoid investing in companies who utilize them, I don't vote for politicians who are aligned with them, I avoid buying products made by them, and I oppose taxpayer support for any of them.
Public unions, like the ones we're talking about in Wisconsin, are a cancer within society. They like to portray themselves as "the little guy", but I have seen no evidence to support this view. The evidence that I have seen suggests that they are the natural enemy of the state and local taxpayer. Regardless of what they say, the policies they pursue ensure that public workers do less work, with less oversight, for more money. Their tactics are to bully the state and local politicians, to give them higher salaries, and make it harder to fire public workers who don't do their jobs.
North Carolina has had job losses, but it is related to the slowing of growth industries. Jobs we've lost were in construction and commodities (mining, ag, forestry), which are cyclical anyways -- rather than the rust belt's unionized manufacturing that was driven extinct.
Textiles and furniture manufacturing say "Hi". These are not cyclical industries, and they are not "slowing". Rather, they are victims of lower foreign production costs.
Textiles and furniture manufacturing say "Hi". These are not cyclical industries, and they are not "slowing". Rather, they are victims of lower foreign production costs.
North Carolina's recent job losses have been concentrated in construction and the production of commodities.
Textiles are a different story. They are not the cause of our recent spike in unemployment. We have been losing textile jobs, but that has been a decline over a much longer period of time, and from many causes. We started losing textile jobs since the 1950's, and yet, textile output in North Carolina only started declining in 1992. That means, for 42 years, we achieved more and more textile output with fewer and fewer workers thanks to automation.
for the skills necessary in textiles production, US labor receives higher relative compensation than does labor in these other countries. i hardly call that a "victim." it is basic capitalism that the uncompetitive jobs are going to disappear, and people who can't handle that should go vote communist.
What is so evil about unions! To me, unions help level the playing field in terms of making sure employess in the industrial or manufacturing sector have a competitive wage and in turn, offer better healthcare/benefits and good pensions when they retire, what is so wrong with that? My dad reired from a union company and set for life with his benefits!
What's wrong is that your concept of what a union is or does is straight out of a textbook, and you are biased in favor of unions mostly because your father is in one.
You father is set for life at someone else's expense, probalby that of the taxpayers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi
Public unions, like the ones we're talking about in Wisconsin, are a cancer within society. They like to portray themselves as "the little guy", but I have seen no evidence to support this view. The evidence that I have seen suggests that they are the natural enemy of the state and local taxpayer. Regardless of what they say, the policies they pursue ensure that public workers do less work, with less oversight, for more money. Their tactics are to bully the state and local politicians, to give them higher salaries, and make it harder to fire public workers who don't do their jobs.
This is the more sober view of what unions are and what they do, and the more sober view of anything is usually the more accurate one.
Many decades ago, unions really did represent the weaker party who was overreached and exploited. Now, the opposite is the case. Public policy needs to continue to evolve to the point where public unions are no longer submitted to or perhaps even legal in many states. I think the present actions of public unions will bias more of society against them in the years to come as society will see unions as those organizations which use society's needs and tax base to their own ends.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
