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Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,693,648 times
Reputation: 10256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
I AM NOT ASKING FOR SQUAT!!!!!
FIrst of all, I did not start this thread. SO I am not asking anything.
In reply to others, I have stated that it is important to ensure the integrity of an election.
Integrity of an election includes MAKING SURE PEOPLE ARE REGISTERED. I want to see every eligible voter in the USA REGISTERED AND VOTING. Only half the people eligible even bother to vote!!!
I WANT EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO VOTE TO BE ABLE TO VOTE.
If they can't show up at the polls, I want them to have access to an absentee ballot.
This is SIMPLE.
I am not looking for any kind of problem. However, I do find it strange that anyone would object to a person having to prove they are, indeed, the same person whose name is on a precinct voter registration list.
I've worked at the polls. The only time you would be asked for identification in North Carolina is if at your original voter registration tree was no verification of your identity. If you registered when obtaining your drivers license,then you would not be required to show ID at the polls. I think all this voter ID/fraud issue is quite clearly a ploy be Republcans to suppress the vote. They perform better as a party when fewer people vote.
Southbound, I know there are problems with absentee ballots.
But that is the process we have been given.
I sure as hell don't want states to do away with absentee ballots.
As I said before, every process needs an audit feature built in.
This is not hard.
If we are required to get photo IDs in this state, then it is up to the state to make sure every person needing one has access to such an ID.
I think this is a red herring argument.
If a person doesn't have a photo ID, and it is required, then everyone needs to get a photo ID.
My feelings about such things as facial recognition software and the intrusion of the government into my rights as a citizen to privacy is NOT what this thread is about. I find myself having to defend my belief about the importance of ensuring ELECTION VALIDITY on a thread I did not start, but that has my name as the original poster. The discussion on government intrusion into our lives is valid and I am happy to discuss it on another thread.
My contention is . . . the election process is inherently flawed from the get-go if two things are not in place:
1. a way to register any citizen who wishes to be registered
2. a way to validate that any citizen who wishes to vote is indeed a registered voter and is actually the person whose name is on that registration list
That is all I am saying. THat is part of ensuring an valid election process.
If there are people out there with some intent to disenfranchise voters, it sure doesn't seem likely that this is happening via requirement of proof of identity. Only a small part of eligible citizens would even NOT HAVE a photo ID in their possession. Maybe any law that requires photo ID should also have some type of exception clause, such as people over 85 don't need a photo ID. Heck, I don't know!
Seems the fraud would more likely come with absentee ballots and how they are counted.
But that's just me.
I personally think it is reasonable to ask for people to show some sort of ID (and voter registration cards are fine with me!) when they show up at the polls.
I've worked at the polls. The only time you would be asked for identification in North Carolina is if at your original voter registration tree was no verification of your identity. If you registered when obtaining your drivers license,then you would not be required to show ID at the polls. I think all this voter ID/fraud issue is quite clearly a ploy be Republcans to suppress the vote. They perform better as a party when fewer people vote.
Well, I am a registered Republican and I am offended at your assertion.
And I would like to know WHY, other than being somehow poisoned by the media and some talking heads, that you or anyone else would think this is some big REPUBLICAN conspiracy to keep people from voting?
My past research demonstrates that voter fraud has almost almost been perpetrated by registered DEMOCRATS and in precincts that were heavily represented with DEMOCRAT voters.
So if anyone wants to throw an election, let's start talking about what history has shown with what party was perpetrating it.
Well, I am a registered Republican and I am offended at your assertion.
And I would like to know WHY, other than being somehow poisoned by the media and some talking heads, that you or anyone else would think this is some big REPUBLICAN conspiracy to keep people from voting?
My past research demonstrates that voter fraud has almost almost been perpetrated by registered DEMOCRATS and in precincts that were heavily represented with DEMOCRAT voters.
So if anyone wants to throw an election, let's start talking about what history has shown with what party was perpetrating it.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,693,648 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
Southbound, I know there are problems with absentee ballots.
But that is the process we have been given.
I sure as hell don't want states to do away with absentee ballots.
As I said before, every process needs an audit feature built in.
This is not hard.
If we are required to get photo IDs in this state, then it is up to the state to make sure every person needing one has access to such an ID.
I think this is a red herring argument.
If a person doesn't have a photo ID, and it is required, then everyone needs to get a photo ID.
My feelings about such things as facial recognition software and the intrusion of the government into my rights as a citizen to privacy is NOT what this thread is about. I find myself having to defend my belief about the importance of ensuring ELECTION VALIDITY on a thread I did not start, but that has my name as the original poster. The discussion on government intrusion into our lives is valid and I am happy to discuss it on another thread.
My contention is . . . the election process is inherently flawed from the get-go if two things are not in place:
1. a way to register any citizen who wishes to be registered
2. a way to validate that any citizen who wishes to vote is indeed a registered voter and is actually the person whose name is on that registration list
That is all I am saying. THat is part of ensuring an valid election process.
If there are people out there with some intent to disenfranchise voters, it sure doesn't seem likely that this is happening via requirement of proof of identity. Only a small part of eligible citizens would even NOT HAVE a photo ID in their possession. Maybe any law that requires photo ID should also have some type of exception clause, such as people over 85 don't need a photo ID. Heck, I don't know!
Seems the fraud would more likely come with absentee ballots and how they are counted.
But that's just me.
I personally think it is reasonable to ask for people to show some sort of ID (and voter registration cards are fine with me!) when they show up at the polls.
Ani, as I said before, I don't have a problem with the concept, but they do target people.
The laws vary by state, What has grabbed people's attention is the public admission of the PA official that their law is intended to suppress Demotratic votes. I'm unafiliated but that bothers me.
PA has long had an urban vs rural thing concerning voting patterns. I don't know how long it's been in NC, but I see it here too.
Heck, I never had a picture on a drivers license until 5 years ago. I would have no problem at all with pictures on voting cards, but it should be phased in, or it will bring down the system.
I've worked at the polls. The only time you would be asked for identification in North Carolina is if at your original voter registration tree was no verification of your identity. If you registered when obtaining your drivers license,then you would not be required to show ID at the polls. I think all this voter ID/fraud issue is quite clearly a ploy be Republcans to suppress the vote. They perform better as a party when fewer people vote.
I think that some folks on the Democrat side created the issue in the media regarding voter identification, but in reality it doesn't seem to me like it's intended to suppress anyone. It's just another bipartisan issue created to cause a stir. I'm Democrat by the way, but that doesn't make me blind to such things. Both parties do this crap regularly.
I have never understood the argument over this issue. What is the problem with showing an ID? IDs are available to everyone for a nominal fee, so no one is denied a state-issued ID that I'm aware.
Southbound, I know there are problems with absentee ballots.
But that is the process we have been given.
I sure as hell don't want states to do away with absentee ballots.
As I said before, every process needs an audit feature built in.
This is not hard.
If we are required to get photo IDs in this state, then it is up to the state to make sure every person needing one has access to such an ID.
This is not what is happening in other states. Perhaps you have not been following the issue very closely, but states are putting voter ID laws in place without pproviding an easy way for people to obtain photo IDs. They are essentially moving the goal posts, often very close to election day, knowing full well who will be affected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
I think this is a red herring argument.
If a person doesn't have a photo ID, and it is required, then everyone needs to get a photo ID.
The concern over impersonation fraud is the red herring. Because there has been virtually no evidence of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
If there are people out there with some intent to disenfranchise voters, it sure doesn't seem likely that this is happening via requirement of proof of identity. Only a small part of eligible citizens would even NOT HAVE a photo ID in their possession. Maybe any law that requires photo ID should also have some type of exception clause, such as people over 85 don't need a photo ID. Heck, I don't know!
About 21 million citizens in this country are without photo ID. That translates to a sizeable chunk of the electorate (11 percent The Challenge of Obtaining Voter Identification | Brennan Center for Justice). Not in south Charlotte where most folks have had a driver's license since 18, were born in a hospital with a recorded birth, could afford to take time off and go to the DMV and pay for a replacement license or social security card. But in west Charlotte, where lots of folks have never had to drive or may have been born at home in unrecorded births or had their wallet stolen two years ago and chose not to replace their expired IDs because they didn't have a pressing need to.
Here's an illustration of who this will affect (and before someone ignorant seizes on the fact the one of the women was born in Puerto Rico - Puerto Rico is an American territory): Voter ID Laws: Who Doesn't Have Photo ID? | BillMoyers.com
[quote=anifani821;26204379]Seems the fraud would more likely come with absentee ballots and how they are counted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
I personally think it is reasonable to ask for people to show some sort of ID (and voter registration cards are fine with me!) when they show up at the polls.
That might be OK as long as there was some provision for quick replacement of a lost, destroyed, or stolen one.
I think that some folks on the Democrat side created the issue in the media regarding voter identification, but in reality it doesn't seem to me like it's intended to suppress anyone. It's just another bipartisan issue created to cause a stir. I'm Democrat by the way, but that doesn't make me blind to such things. Both parties do this crap regularly.
I have never understood the argument over this issue. What is the problem with showing an ID? IDs are available to everyone for a nominal fee, so no one is denied a state-issued ID that I'm aware.
No one was clamoring for these photo ID laws until the Republicans started pushing for them, knowing full well who they would affect. The GOP caused this stir, the Democrats are simply defending voter rights.
One Republican senator in Pennsylvania even blatantly mentioned voter suppression as one of the "accomplishments" on the newly Republican legislature in Pennsylvania.
Well, I am a registered Republican and I am offended at your assertion.
And I would like to know WHY, other than being somehow poisoned by the media and some talking heads, that you or anyone else would think this is some big REPUBLICAN conspiracy to keep people from voting?
My past research demonstrates that voter fraud has almost almost been perpetrated by registered DEMOCRATS and in precincts that were heavily represented with DEMOCRAT voters.
So if anyone wants to throw an election, let's start talking about what history has shown with what party was perpetrating it.
OKAY?
Evidence, please? Are you talking about the southern Democratic party of the 1960s who can trace their political descendants to the current GOP?
Here's an analysis of GOP/Tea Party voter ID tactics from a decidedly non-liberal, international source.
"Of course, both parties play the turnout game. Democrats would prefer hordes of voters on college campuses and in inner cities; Republicans would prefer the opposite; both sides do what they can to get as many of "their" voters to the polls as possible. But when tactics turn from encouraging one's own voters to vote and setting up legal barriers to prevent the other side from doing so, that is something much nastier"
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