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As I continue to read this thread I become more and more fascinated. Charlotte and Raleigh are freakin awesome! I don't see that many states that have two cities attracting so many talented and bright individuals. It is good to see Charlotte gaining advanced degree peoples and to see Raleigh gaining more people at a higher percentage. These statistics continue to boost my original post in that Charlotte and Raleigh are putting NC on the map and they are the powerhouses of NC. I wonder how the "Piedmont Crescent" would look if we had a high-speed rail linking Raleigh to Charlotte. For those people familiar with the Southend LRT development boom, imagine that from Raleigh to Charlotte. Incredibly awesome.
One of these days it would be good to understand everyone's fascination with population. I think we can all agree that both Charlotte and Raleigh are gorwing in population year to year and the City of Charlotte has a higher population than the City of Raleigh (I am not going to get in the endless debates about "metros" and "CSA" or "MSA").
So looking past the population, unless of course population is the only thing that matters to you, what is it you like about one place over the other?
I like Raleigh a little more because of the academic presence with NC State, UNC Chapel Hill, and Duke (among the other fine universities). I also like the research oriented job field here. I also like having access to the beach in 2 hours on the weekends (We go to Wrightsville often in the summer). I enjoy the redevelopment of downtown Raleigh and the new restaurants and bars that are constantly coming to the area.
That is one of the things I like about Charlotte too, I have gone to the "Uptown" area a few times with friends there and I think it is agreat. I also love the light rail system Charlotte has.
There are lots of pluses to Charlotte and Raleigh. It really doesn't have to be an "either / or" situation. I think more often than not it comes down to where the best job opportunity is for the individual. I certainly seems that way based on all the posts I've read over the years here on city-data. This has also been the case with my friends who live in both Raleigh and Charlotte.
I feel lucky in that I can find ways to enjoy both of these great cities in NC.
I'll take a stab at this population thing. One logical explanation would be that if a city has a high population than for some reason it is popular. This could be for a number of reasons:
* this area has many jobs
* this area has many cultural activities and amenities/night life
* this place has amenities that certain groups of people find attractive
* this place has a nice climate
* this place is attractive for businesses
* there are alot people reproducing in this place
I guess some people believe that if alot of people live in said place then that city is the place to be.
North Carolina is a great state!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love all of the cities here. I am from Statesville, but I love Charlotte and Raleigh the same. I am very glad that these cities are starting to gain attention throughout the rest of this great nation. North Carolina forever baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Having lived in NC for my whole life and in both Charlotte and the Triangle, I feel like I can make an educated commentary on both. In addition to NC, I have traveled extensively so I feel like the judgements I make have some merit. First off, I am proud to be a part of a state theat has made so many positive steps over the past 30+ years.
When I was growing up, I remember reading my grandmother's encyclopedias from the 1950's about the ruralness of NC and how other than textiles, furniture, and tobacco, only crop farming was left. We have come a long way, and we stack up against some other Southern states (TN, GA, AL) who used to have much better known cities.
When I travel, people are curious about the success of NC over the past few decades. I think we have an environment that attracts and welcomes business and a people who predominantly welcome change. I personally think immigration into NC overall has been a good thing. The Piedmont of NC (Charlotte, the Triad, and the Triangle) is transforming into one of the great regions of the East Coast and the whole US.
Having grown up around Charlotte (and I currently live in the Charlotte metro), I used to be inclined to believe Charlotte was ahead of the rest of NC. I still believe Charlotte is great and is hopefully taking the right steps to diversify our economy from such much financial to thrive in the coming years. Howver, that being said, I believe the Triangle is also a vibrant place and is equally on par with Charlotte. In my opinion (and it's just that), most people who would denigrate another area have not spent enough time really getting to know it (myself included).
People from western part of the state (including Charlotte) are inherently distrustful of Raleigh (which I believe is misplaced but I do think Eastern NC (east of Raleigh) has retained too much power politcally given the decline in population and industry). As many people above has pointed out, the population of NC lies within the central part of the state primarily, as the western part grows slower and the eastern part loses population.
Personally I do not think that Raleigh (Triangle) and Charlotte are destined to be enemies. I do believe a healthy competition is good and has spurred both to become World Class cities (at least in my estimation).
Raleigh and the Triangle has done a wonderful job attracting technology driven companies, and I think Raleigh deserves to be mentioned with Austin, TX and Colorado Springs, CO as a premier city of an educated workforce.
Likewise, Charlotte has done a great job of becoming one of the premier financial powerhouses of the country. Both cities have moved lightyears beyond our shared agriculutural roots.
Personally, based on what I have seen and read, I see Charlotte continuing to grow and I believe it will remain as the largest city in NC indefinitely. A lot of this is pure geography. Charlotte has annexed almost all of Mecklenburg County, which along with Wake are the 2 biggest counties in the state. I do however think Wake County will overtake Mecklenburg in population at some point because Wake has a bigger land volume.
Raleigh remains more land-locked but the Raleigh-Cary, Durham, Chapel Hill area will continue it's phenomenal growth and will close the gap as "The Triangle" to approaching the size of the Charlotte metro, maybe even surpassing it in the next 20-30 years.
Even as someone living around Charlotte, I welcome this. I do not think the success of the Triangle will mean Charlotte will fail. We both, on a national scale, are just coming into prominence, and I hope it continues throughout the 21st Century.
I could go into more discussion about a host of specifics, but as a whole I think North Carolineans should embrace the fact we have 2 (and to lesser extent 3) regions that are becoming nationally known. It is a far cry from the 1950's!!!
To everyone living in or considering this great state, I want to say I am proud to be a North Carolinean and will be to my dying day. I hope you all feel the same.
^^^Nice post!!! I don't agree with any of it, however it was well thought out and very educated. I like that! Rep points for you Joe.
You admit that it was educated and well thought out, but you still don't agree with any of it? hummm...
I think it makes plenty of sense. Charlotte will be the largest city, due to the size of the land it sits on, yet the Triangle will close the gap with the Charlotte area as far as population goes. I could see these areas having the same population in their CSA's in the next 20-30 years.
^^I don't see their CSAs having the same population in the next 20-30 years. The gap may not be as big. Right now the Triangle CSA is at 1.7 million I think, and Charlotte is 2.3 million. The Triangle area is growing faster percentage wise, but Charlotte is growing bigger numerically. Between the two areas since 1980-present day, I think Charlotte has added 265k more people, I think that is just for the city though. Eventually I see the micro areas of Mooresville-Statesville and Salisbury either becoming a metro area or officially apart of the Charlotte MSA and the Charlotte and Hickory metro areas becoming a CSA.
I will conceed that Wake county by that time will overtake Mecklenburg as the states most populous county. That will be because Mecklenburg county will have maxed out growth and Wake will still have some more land to grow in.
Additionally I see Charlotte and Raleigh CSAs reaching into the nations 30 and their economies will be ranked even higher. Especially if Charlotte becomes an energy hub. Raleigh should grow its technical base into nanotechnology, I see its pharmaceutical industry about to embark on some rough times.
^^I don't see their CSAs having the same population in the next 20-30 years. The gap may not be as big. Right now the Triangle CSA is at 1.7 million I think, and Charlotte is 2.3 million. The Triangle area is growing faster percentage wise, but Charlotte is growing bigger numerically. Between the two areas since 1980-present day, I think Charlotte has added 265k more people, I think that is just for the city though. Eventually I see the micro areas of Mooresville-Statesville and Salisbury either becoming a metro area or officially apart of the Charlotte MSA and the Charlotte and Hickory metro areas becoming a CSA.
I will conceed that Wake county by that time will overtake Mecklenburg as the states most populous county. That will be because Mecklenburg county will have maxed out growth and Wake will still have some more land to grow in.
Additionally I see Charlotte and Raleigh CSAs reaching into the nations 30 and their economies will be ranked even higher. Especially if Charlotte becomes an energy hub. Raleigh should grow its technical base into nanotechnology, I see its pharmaceutical industry about to embark on some rough times.
I can concede that, but 20-30 years is a long time. I think if Raleigh continues to grow at the same higher % then we could tie Charlotte's CSA size.
The one thing I think you're wrong about is the pharmaceutical industry in RTP and in general. The US Govt. doesn't invent drugs. They do research, but can you name me the last drug they invented? Private industry invents drugs and cures for deceases. I think Pharma will grow exponentially in RTP and overall, no matter what the current administration wants to happen.
^^I don't see their CSAs having the same population in the next 20-30 years. The gap may not be as big. Right now the Triangle CSA is at 1.7 million I think, and Charlotte is 2.3 million. The Triangle area is growing faster percentage wise, but Charlotte is growing bigger numerically. Between the two areas since 1980-present day, I think Charlotte has added 265k more people, I think that is just for the city though. Eventually I see the micro areas of Mooresville-Statesville and Salisbury either becoming a metro area or officially apart of the Charlotte MSA and the Charlotte and Hickory metro areas becoming a CSA.
Well said! This is exactly why I did not agree with the post by "joe". Additionally, the Triangle's CSA is landlocked to the west (Triad) and the south (Fayetteville). The Triangle can only grow north and east (unless we see a Fayetteville/Triad/Triangle merger which is doubtful any time soon). Charlotte's CSA has more room to grow. Also, Charlotte is THE city within a larger CSA and Raleigh is A city within a smaller CSA. This is why Charlotte vs. Raleigh is generally seen as an apples vs. oranges comparison. The fact that these two metro areas are not comparable (nor are they on par with each other) isn't even debatable. It is a fact.
Here are some interesting facts about Charlotte's MSA vs. Greensboro and Raleigh's CSAs.
Charlotte's 6 county MSA has 1.7 million people (2009)
Raleigh's 8 county CSA has 1.7 million people (2009)
Greensboro's 10 county CSA has 1.6 million people (2009)
Seems close huh?
Charlotte's 6 county MSA has roughly 3,000 sq/mi of land
Raleigh's 8 county CSA has roughly 4,500 sq/mi of land
Greensboro's 10 county CSA has roughly 4,900 sq/mi of land
Keep in mind that NC's fastest growing county (Union) and SC's fastest growing county (York) are both located in Charlotte's MSA. Looking at the current numbers and the past growth trends, I honestly don't see Raleigh's CSA passing Charlotte's MSA by much. I don't see Raleigh's CSA passing Charlotte's CSA ever (by "ever" I mean in my life time). Charlotte's growth would have to come to a dead stop for the next 20 plus years for that to happen. I hope both Raleigh and Charlotte continue to grow for years to come. A dead stop in growth is not something I wish on either Charlotte or Raleigh.
I've said this many times before and I will say it again. The area in NC most comparable to the Triangle is the Triad. The only thing the Triangle has in common with Charlotte is extremely high growth. When it comes to population, layout, mass transit usage, airport traffic, infrastructure/roads, things to do, etc, Raleigh should be compared to Greensboro. Plain and simple. When it comes to growth, then and only then should Raleigh and Charlotte be compared.
There's my rant for the day. Thanks for reading. Bye y'all!
Last edited by urbancharlotte; 08-08-2009 at 04:48 AM..
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Rep points for you Joe.
