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Old 07-07-2010, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,141 posts, read 15,770,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by algia View Post
BTW, when I lived in Europe I have never heard of politics being brought up when conversating about clothing, unless we were discussing the Queen choice of colors!!! And even then the conversation remained about the clothes and not how to throw politics
amongst fabrics!!!
They don't have a first amendment there. And what would you consider the whole hubbub in France was over banning head coverings for women? In Germany, they'll put you in prison for wearing a swastika.
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Old 07-07-2010, 03:20 PM
 
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Of course they don't, but the 1st Amendment here has little to do with school uniforms, schools are FREE to institute their clothing policy.

The Post Office is Also a Gov body and they do wear uniforms. Are they not under the same 1st Amendment? Same goes for Military. If you want to invoke the 1st amendment then the Post office & the Military should also stop wearing uniforms.
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Old 07-07-2010, 03:30 PM
 
5,693 posts, read 5,591,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by algia View Post
Of course they don't, but the 1st Amendment here has little to do with school uniforms, schools are FREE to institute their clothing policy.
No, they are not free to do that here. Many of them would like to institute a uniform policy. Teachers/administrators are sick of enforcing no-spaghetti strap rules and the like. They do not have the freedom to slap down a policy. The only way a public school seems to be able to dictate a uniform policy is if the school is some type of charter school where a student applies to that school or makes an active choice to go there. For regular schools, there appears to be some approval process they must go through. If unpopular, it doesn't happen.

Public schools in this area are like a democracy: everyone gets a vote or a say in things for the most part.

Private schools/private companies are more like dictatorships with the owner of the company or the board that runs the company making people who CHOOSE to work there or attend there abide by their rules.
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Old 07-07-2010, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,141 posts, read 15,770,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by algia View Post
The Post Office is Also a Gov body and they do wear uniforms. Are they not under the same 1st Amendment? Same goes for Military. If you want to invoke the 1st amendment then the Post office & the Military should also stop wearing uniforms.
No, their employees work there voluntarily and in exchange are required to comply with their policies. School attendance is mandated so is held to a different standard.
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Old 07-07-2010, 07:45 PM
 
2,666 posts, read 4,032,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristineVA View Post
No, they are not free to do that here. Many of them would like to institute a uniform policy. Teachers/administrators are sick of enforcing no-spaghetti strap rules and the like. They do not have the freedom to slap down a policy. The only way a public school seems to be able to dictate a uniform policy is if the school is some type of charter school where a student applies to that school or makes an active choice to go there. For regular schools, there appears to be some approval process they must go through. If unpopular, it doesn't happen.

Public schools in this area are like a democracy: everyone gets a vote or a say in things for the most part.

Private schools/private companies are more like dictatorships with the owner of the company or the board that runs the company making people who CHOOSE to work there or attend there abide by their rules.
I agree that schools should be able to enforce dress codes and uniform policies, but the ACLU and their cohorts among elected officials and the courts have made that difficult to impossible.

If this has you so upset, Algia, you could go back to Europe. Not really saying that you should, just making the point that maybe you should educate yourself on the status quo here rather than being so argumentative with people who are just politely trying to explain this to you. Or you could bring the discussion over to the Politics and Controversies forum. Again, I agree with a lot of your opinions about school attire!)

There are a few low-income elementary schools in Fairfax County that have voluntary uniform policies. The key word is "voluntary." Most of the parents at those schools choose to go along with it, because it relieves them of having to stretch their budget quite so much for school clothes. But it has stopped there.
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Old 07-07-2010, 08:43 PM
 
3,953 posts, read 6,348,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
The only thing that bothered me was when they'd want to wear flip flops in January.

Yeah, a very common thing. My retirement gig is driving a County school bus and kids do some crazy things. Many boys (usually it's boys) wear only t-shirts and shorts no matter how cold it is....seriously, temps can be in the single digits and still just t-shirts and shorts.

It seems like the girls carry backpacks in order to have multiple changes of clothes. I've picked 'em in the morning and they're wearing one outfit, then I return for a field trip and they're wearing something else, and on the ride home...they're wearing yet another outfit. LOL

Another amazing thing....kids leave tons of articles of clothing (often expensive, name brand stuff) on the bus and they very rarely (almost NEVER) reclaim them. I can hold it up and yell "who does this belong to?" every day for weeks and no response. It seems to be worse after Christmas....I'm convinced that the clothing was a gift that they don't like, and that's their way of getting rid of it.
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Old 07-08-2010, 06:36 AM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,141 posts, read 15,770,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car54 View Post
Yeah, a very common thing. My retirement gig is driving a County school bus and kids do some crazy things. Many boys (usually it's boys) wear only t-shirts and shorts no matter how cold it is....seriously, temps can be in the single digits and still just t-shirts and shorts.

It seems like the girls carry backpacks in order to have multiple changes of clothes. I've picked 'em in the morning and they're wearing one outfit, then I return for a field trip and they're wearing something else, and on the ride home...they're wearing yet another outfit. LOL

Another amazing thing....kids leave tons of articles of clothing (often expensive, name brand stuff) on the bus and they very rarely (almost NEVER) reclaim them. I can hold it up and yell "who does this belong to?" every day for weeks and no response. It seems to be worse after Christmas....I'm convinced that the clothing was a gift that they don't like, and that's their way of getting rid of it.
Awesome post.
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Old 07-08-2010, 06:50 AM
 
5,453 posts, read 3,802,636 times
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What makes the least sense to me is how come schools (public) in general, not just VA, seem to not have any authority or decision power and they seem to be run by the kids instead of the principal/admin/teachers? That's all.

"Schools" are Government Institutions, not some library joint...and yet they seem to have trouble instituting ANYTHING that is school related; things as simple as the use of uniforms.

Not arguing really, just trying to make sense...you say that the Post Office workers abide by the dress code because they "voluntarily" work there, so technically kids don't go to school voluntarily? they are forced too? who's forcing them? since here it is NOT mandatory that they graduate like it is in most countries in Europe, more and more I see how graduation rates drop rather than climb...that tells me that the "schools" are not only optional but not important enough to set their own rules? be it dress code or other rules?

I find it hard to believe that public schools have so little authority!

Schools are places of uniformity since ALL the kids are supposed to learn the same things...or is that optional too? each picks whatever they want to learn and ignore the rest?

As I said in a prior post, it changed back in Europe too, my school there no longer wears uniforms either, so it's not like if we go there we get to wear uniforms...that was not my point, I was making a comparison. I could compare it with here, in Florida, where the PTA chose the colors and type of polo's versus having the school choose it. When in MY Opinion it should have been the school choice since they have plenty of admin staff and a principal.

I mean, the "schools" should have the authority to choose how they want to operate, dress code...everything, so far all I hear is complaints that they have no money AND are constantly asking parents to donate, donate, donate....then they waste mountains of paper (double or triple that if you have 2, 3 kids in the same school) instead of just using email! or leave a message on the phones...it seems as the lights are on but nobody's home.....

Yes, this is new to me, and this year has been really tough to get used to things that could have been handled in much easier ways!

I really believe that since they belong to the Gov, they should All (in all states) have the same rules/curriculum, it only makes sense, it would be much better for everyone involved than have a million opinions that only deter from the school purpose since we all don't agree on "how" they should operate! Just like the Post Office. I don't see why that's so different since the Post Office belongs to the Gov also. I don't see the difference. All I see is a double standard.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeesfan View Post
I agree that schools should be able to enforce dress codes and uniform policies, but the ACLU and their cohorts among elected officials and the courts have made that difficult to impossible.

If this has you so upset, Algia, you could go back to Europe. Not really saying that you should, just making the point that maybe you should educate yourself on the status quo here rather than being so argumentative with people who are just politely trying to explain this to you. Or you could bring the discussion over to the Politics and Controversies forum. Again, I agree with a lot of your opinions about school attire!)

There are a few low-income elementary schools in Fairfax County that have voluntary uniform policies. The key word is "voluntary." Most of the parents at those schools choose to go along with it, because it relieves them of having to stretch their budget quite so much for school clothes. But it has stopped there.
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Old 07-08-2010, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,141 posts, read 15,770,769 times
Reputation: 6455
Perhaps you should be posting these concerns on one of the Florida forums or the Education forum as they don't really apply here. Once you've actually lived here then you'll likely have some more relevant issues to raise. As for a national standard - do you really want the Federal government telling you what your kids have to wear everyday?
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Old 07-08-2010, 07:23 AM
 
5,453 posts, read 3,802,636 times
Reputation: 2141
Yes, since it won't cost me $20,000 a year to have some discipline instilled! Rather save that for college!
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
As for a national standard - do you really want the Federal government telling you what your kids have to wear everyday?
If I want to work for the Post Office they'll tell me anyway...what's the difference? that I get holidays off? Honestly, seeing how the private sector works here, I would LOVE to work for the Gov for a change.

I really hope to be surprised in a good way once there...really do...so far, it has been really weird to say the least.
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