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Ummm, tysons is downtown NOVA. If you think it's just a mall you need to do more research and get updated from 1990.
Arlington is just a restroom stop if you are traveling to DC.
While I agree that there is feverish development in Tyson's, there's a danger of not allowing things to fit together organically. There has always been such issues with such fast-paced growth. Many small, but important things can be overlooked. People work and shop in Tysons, but leave to go home outside of the core of Tysons.
Building high-rise apartments will help, but it is still very much a city built for cars. Where will the civic spaces be? Parks? Recreation? There's a danger that it could end up like Crystal City. I used to go to the gym in Crystal City on the weekends. It was dead and lifeless because there were just places to shop and work, but not really a place to live and enjoy for those that live there.
I hope they will be able to provide these much needed civic amenities that you can find in some of the great places in NoVa.
Maybe someone with some knowledge of the developments can share some plans or goals for civic spaces, bike and pedestrian access, and parks?
For me, Tysons is just a mall because they don't really have enough amenities to attract me for anything else since I don't work there save maybe Walmart. Although the restaurant selection is improving, it still isn't anything great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky
I hope they will be able to provide these much needed civic amenities that you can find in some of the great places in NoVa.
Maybe someone with some knowledge of the developments can share some plans or goals for civic spaces, bike and pedestrian access, and parks?
They are planning lots of bike lanes and pedestrian improvements. I'm sure Tysons will write you an essay in a matter of seconds.
While I agree that there is feverish development in Tyson's, there's a danger of not allowing things to fit together organically. There has always been such issues with such fast-paced growth. Many small, but important things can be overlooked. People work and shop in Tysons, but leave to go home outside of the core of Tysons.
Building high-rise apartments will help, but it is still very much a city built for cars. Where will the civic spaces be? Parks? Recreation? There's a danger that it could end up like Crystal City. I used to go to the gym in Crystal City on the weekends. It was dead and lifeless because there were just places to shop and work, but not really a place to live and enjoy for those that live there.
I hope they will be able to provide these much needed civic amenities that you can find in some of the great places in NoVa.
Maybe someone with some knowledge of the developments can share some plans or goals for civic spaces, bike and pedestrian access, and parks?
There was a decades worth of discussion, planning, and voting that already set all of that. The new development, unlike the old stuff, is master planned so it specifically creates what you are saying.
Better link for someone who really wants to know the goals and requirements
Because you know, the only downtowns of the world are DC, San Fran, and NYC. All others aren't downtowns.
I'm a realist, I've always said that Tysons today is not habitable, is stricken with bad decisions, but to ignore that so much is changing there... whats the point? Are you still stuck on the idea that Arlington is also a terrible place also? Things change.
When did I dislike Arlington? I think to be a good down town area you have to be walkable. I know there are probably some outliers to that but if there are there are probably not more walkable places close by. And really isn't DC NOVA's downtown?
When did I dislike Arlington? I think to be a good down town area you have to be walkable. I know there are probably some outliers to that but if there are there are probably not more walkable places close by. And really isn't DC NOVA's downtown?
And as I noted I never said its a good downtown. I actually said the exact opposite. But it is still a Downtown. I also clarified to say it is Fairfax's downtown. And no DC isn't Fairfax's downtown, because DC isn't in Fairfax. DC is the regions downtown.
Sad thing is, I agree with you, but you don't realize that. I concur, to be a good downtown it needs to be walkable and habitable. Tysons doesn't have that yet. But to think that all things are frozen in time is also foolish. My point about Arlington is that you would have said the exact same things about it if you were here in 1980 (after all you are an old guard) but those things changed, with time. Tysons will also change, with time, to go from being a bad downtown, to a good downtown. Projects like the one listed in this thread are exactly why that will happen.
But by all means, keep your head in sand about anything in the world ever changing for the better. Must be fun to have such a view.
There was a decades worth of discussion, planning, and voting that already set all of that. The new development, unlike the old stuff, is master planned so it specifically creates what you are saying.
Better link for someone who really wants to know the goals and requirements
As gomason points out, I could literally write a book about it, but my website basically does the same thing.
The goals and requirement's for future development does not make it a downtown area today. I personally avoid it because there is nothing there I cannot find better elsewhere. I will go to the malls and strip malls sparingly throughout the year. Building a massive elevated train track/divider down Rt. 7 has made me less likely to visit.
I do hope it changes and have hope. I would love for Tyson's to become a destination and not just a place people work and shop. I think that Crystal City is a good example. I prefer the walk ability of Old Town Alexandria, the Wilson Corridor and even Falls Church more and find that important for an area to be a true down town though recognize others may not find that important.
Even the mass transit is segregated in Tyson's for some unknown and assuredly short sighted reason.
There was a decades worth of discussion, planning, and voting that already set all of that. The new development, unlike the old stuff, is master planned so it specifically creates what you are saying.
I want to believe that Tysons will improve over time. Based on what I've seen so far, I'm not that encouraged. The Metro stations are above-ground, of course, and not very close to anything. It's still awful to walk along 123; even though there are some sidewalks, the cars and the pedestrians are on the same side of the guard-rails. So after a car veers off 123 and smashes a pedestrian, at least it will come to a complete halt before the car goes down a ravine. Great.
Also bad are the overhead walkways from the Tysons Corner Metro to the mall. You walk right over 123 and some of the current walkways aren't even fully enclosed. Then you get to a "plaza" of sorts near Shake Shack where a few people are sitting around on benches and playing ping-pong. Again, it seems poorly designed and potentially dangerous for children. If you are even somewhat agoraphobic, it's a public space best to avoid. Will the later development be any better, or is the existing footprint of malls, office buildings and parking lots just too much to overcome?
Don't get me wrong - I'm glad the Silver Line arrived and it's actually convenient for me, but in terms of design? Yikes. You keep saying that folks need to get off Routes 123 and 7 if they want to see what Tysons is really about these days, but why? Is there even one example of something there besides the malls that's really worth the extra effort to explore, or do we just need to wait another decade for that?
It is undoubtedly good for Tysons if Whole Foods is prepared to open a big store there and, at least temporarily, serve as an anchor. But grocery stores come and go. I remember a mogul opening a huge "food emporium" on Columbus Avenue in NYC in the 1980s that was going to dwarf Zabar's. It gots tons of attention and did well for a while, but closed within five years. Sometimes it's the "Soviet Safeways" and their equivalents that last the longest: they may look like garbage, but it's hard to kill them off.
The goals and requirement's for future development does not make it a downtown area today. I personally avoid it because there is nothing there I cannot find better elsewhere. I will go to the malls and strip malls sparingly throughout the year. Building a massive elevated train track/divider down Rt. 7 has made me less likely to visit.
I do hope it changes and have hope. I would love for Tyson's to become a destination and not just a place people work and shop. I think that Crystal City is a good example. I prefer the walk ability of Old Town Alexandria, the Wilson Corridor and even Falls Church more and find that important for an area to be a true down town though recognize others may not find that important.
Even the mass transit is segregated in Tyson's for some unknown and assuredly short sighted reason.
No, millions and millions of square feet of office, 100k+ jobs, and a total assessed value of 13.5 billion dollars make it a downtown; more so than other so called downtowns that you are probably familiar with. All the other stuff will make it a good downtown. You are still not getting that. The fact that all you do is stick to Route 7 strip malls is indicative of the disconnect between your experience and mine, but I concur, life in Tysons today is still tough. Then again when you have a dozen infill projects going on, that stuff changes.
And as I noted I never said its a good downtown. I actually said the exact opposite. But it is still a Downtown. I also clarified to say it is Fairfax's downtown. And no DC isn't Fairfax's downtown, because DC isn't in Fairfax. DC is the regions downtown.
To be an areas downtown you do not need to be in the same county, or even state. I would use parts of New Jersey as an example. Downtown in some parts of New Jersey is Manhattan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonsengineer
Sad thing is, I agree with you, but you don't realize that. I concur, to be a good downtown it needs to be walkable and habitable. Tysons doesn't have that yet. But to think that all things are frozen in time is also foolish.
?????? If things do change I will probably think of it more as the regions down town. But until then I do not think of it that way. One place I left off my list was Reston which I consider a more complete downtown than Tyson's even though it is much less convenient for me. Also I do not think every area needs a downtown so there is no reason to force that connection. It will come.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonsengineer
My point about Arlington is that you would have said the exact same things about it if you were here in 1980 (after all you are an old guard) but those things changed, with time. Tysons will also change, with time, to go from being a bad downtown, to a good downtown. Projects like the one listed in this thread are exactly why that will happen.
I do remember the 80's but very little of Tyson's in the 80's. The Old Guard is the United States Army's official ceremonial unit and escort to the President of the United States and Fairfax.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonsengineer
But by all means, keep your head in sand about anything in the world ever changing for the better. Must be fun to have such a view.
Is Tyson's NOVA's downtown TODAY? I know by many metrics is the largest city in the area but it currently has no soul.
There was a decades worth of discussion, planning, and voting that already set all of that. The new development, unlike the old stuff, is master planned so it specifically creates what you are saying.
Better link for someone who really wants to know the goals and requirements
As gomason points out, I could literally write a book about it, but my website basically does the same thing.
Does Fairfax County actually follow the Tyson's plan?
They might as well use the comprehensive plans for areas around me as fire kindling and toilet paper. They do not follow them. I ripped into the county officials at a comprehensive planning meeting a couple of months ago for basically just wasting their time on bureaucratic paperwork that they don't use.
response: "well, it isn't a legally binding document or code. It is just a guideline."
What the eff? Then why bother?
Response: "Virginia mandates them"
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