Fairfax County Meals Tax on November Ballot (Springfield: rent, Home Depot)

[blindside]

Nationally, it would appear that major metros have meals taxes (Meals Taxes in Major U.S. Cities | Tax Foundation). When I sort by combined tax rank, DC and VA Beach (arguably one of the more populous areas relative to NoVA) are 10%. Therefore, I am not surprised at all.

I bet if Fairfax passes, Loudoun is next (though it was turned down in 2012).

[Hal Roach]

Originally Posted by airjay75

I think the argument is that a 4% meals tax paid by your average low income person will take up a greater percentage of that person's income than the average 4% meals tax paid by a middle or upper income person. As you said, there is a certain degree of choice involved in paying this tax, although some will argue that low income people don't always have a lot of choice in some of the decisions they have to make - sort of the classic political debate as to whether you're poor as a result of your own choices or you're poor because the system is stacked against you. Regardless of which side of that debate one falls, I think the reality is that low income people will continue to eat out if a tax like this is passed, and it probably will have a bigger impact on their income than those of higher incomes. Perhaps the result of their own choices, but probably the reality nonetheless.

Yeah, but it's the poorer people, who will get stiffed on tips...they're not eating there; they are working there. Thank goodness that the Left is always looking out for the working class. Or is it more like the non-working class?

[airjay75]

Interesting that people think this will reduce tips. Personally, I always tip on the after tax amount - I typically just look at the bottom number, calculate 20% and then round up to the nearest dollar. I don't see myself suddenly starting to adjust for a 4% meals tax, so my tipping will likely increase as a result of this, but that's just me.

[Hal Roach]

Same goes for the delivery fee, tacked on at the pizza places, that the drivers don't get....ask any of them...comes right out of their tip. And as far as California...used to be no tax on cold food to go, and 8.5% on hot food...now likely closer to 10%. So your free gravy on your turkey sandwich increased the price significantly. Guess how many hot food togo orders I made in 6 years? They even tried this snack tax thing that was really ridiculous....item by item. One place started calling "truffles," "mousse balls," and was able to avoid collecting snack taxes. And that reminds me of the costs to small businesses to administer the program. It's a job killer. Time to put those pigs at the Taj Mahal on a diet. I remember back in 78 or so, the FEA was in their annual dispute about salaries....85000 a year for an athletic director that couldn't keep one field mowed just wasn't enough. They started this thing called "work to the rule," where they came in at 7:15 and left at 3:15...The interesting thing was that it had no impact, at all, on anything. After several months, it just faded away. But, the bitching about pay has never stopped.

[BellaLind]

I still need time to carefully consider it, but on the surface, I am for it. The county needs to raise more money (or cut services) and they don't want to raise property tax which will effect everyone in the county and everyone will pay either as a homeowner or as a renter whose rent goes up as the landlord adjusts to cover the cost.

So they come up with a meal tax which is essentially a luxury tax (in the sense that eating is a luxury). It's also an optional tax as one doesn't have to eat out either.

I would never dream of punishing a waiter by not tipping to make up for a tax. How is it the waiter's fault? The tip is aside from the bill and taxes you already pay. Besides, it's not like we are talking about a whole lot of money. If your bill is $100, that's $4. If you are paying $100 to eat out in the first place, what's another $4? And if that $4 really is a big deal, maybe you shouldn't be eating out? And guess what, you have the option not to pay the tax if you don't want to (unlike so many other taxes).

The bad thing I can think of with this tax is from the county's perspective. Since it is essentially an optional tax, how can they predict or budget for it? Of course I feel for the restaurant owners too. They work on such a tight profit as it is. Although the counter to that would be Fairfax County being more desirable to live in means a steady stream of customers. The other is, of course, yet another tax. But I like that it's optional.

[TheWatchmen]

Originally Posted by BellaLind

I still need time to carefully consider it, but on the surface, I am for it. The county needs to raise more money (or cut services) and they don't want to raise property tax which will effect everyone in the county and everyone will pay either as a homeowner or as a renter whose rent goes up as the landlord adjusts to cover the cost.

So they come up with a meal tax which is essentially a luxury tax (in the sense that eating is a luxury). It's also an optional tax as one doesn't have to eat out either.

I would never dream of punishing a waiter by not tipping to make up for a tax. How is it the waiter's fault? The tip is aside from the bill and taxes you already pay. Besides, it's not like we are talking about a whole lot of money. If your bill is $100, that's $4. If you are paying $100 to eat out in the first place, what's another $4? And if that $4 really is a big deal, maybe you shouldn't be eating out? And guess what, you have the option not to pay the tax if you don't want to (unlike so many other taxes).

The bad thing I can think of with this tax is from the county's perspective. Since it is essentially an optional tax, how can they predict or budget for it? Of course I feel for the restaurant owners too. They work on such a tight profit as it is. Although the counter to that would be Fairfax County being more desirable to live in means a steady stream of customers. The other is, of course, yet another tax. But I like that it's optional.

Yes, a meals tax is optional, as long as I am content with barricading myself in my home, except to go grocery shopping (for non-prepared foods only!) occasionally.

It is pervasive, and unavoidable. And it is insidiously lumped in with general sales tax on the last few receipts that I can recall seeing (in other local jurisdictions).

Eating prepared foods is hardly a luxury. That is a ridiculous notion and is not supported in the slightest by the diversity of patrons of prepared food establishments. Yes, everything is a choice - I could choose not to buy any goods, lowering my tax burden, and growing a larger portion of my food, but that just isn't realistic for me, or most people.

I will be voting NO on this tax.

[BellaLind]

Originally Posted by TheWatchmen

Yes, a meals tax is optional, as long as I am content with barricading myself in my home, except to go grocery shopping (for non-prepared foods only!) occasionally.

It is pervasive, and unavoidable. And it is insidiously lumped in with general sales tax on the last few receipts that I can recall seeing (in other local jurisdictions).

Eating prepared foods is hardly a luxury. That is a ridiculous notion and is not supported in the slightest by the diversity of patrons of prepared food establishments. Yes, everything is a choice - I could choose not to buy any goods, lowering my tax burden, and growing a larger portion of my food, but that just isn't realistic for me, or most people.

I will be voting NO on this tax.

I'm undecided. Like I said, I need more information and details to make a good decision. But I have time before November.

I think of eating out as a luxury in that not only does one not need to eat out but it's often the first thing financial advisors recommend cutting to improve one's personal budget. If money is tight, don't eat out (among other things like don't go to the movies or other places of entertainment). I even count eating out as part of my entertainment budget.

I suppose it's a matter of perspective. I earn under the median household income for Fairfax county. So I tend to be very frugal and see things as luxuries that others might see as nessesities. But I have to in order to save money for retirement and for emergencies (working on saving a year's salary in emergency money).

One thing to add. I also wonder what prepared foods in stores they are talking about. That's one of the things I need to look in to. If they mean bread in the bread aisle that's different than a fully loaded sandwich at the deli.

I don't agree with you that buying prepared foods is unavoidable if you are talking now about deli sandwiches or deli potatoe salads. I never buy that overpriced stuff unless I'm eating lunch out. And that's a treat since I pack my lunch. But if you mean things like baked bread, or canned soup, then I do agree it's almost unavoidable. What foods is the tax going to tax specifically?

[spencgr]

Originally Posted by BellaLind

What foods is the tax going to tax specifically?

So, these are Roanoke guidelines, not Fairfax, but I would imagine the rules would be similar.


Prepared Food & Beverage (Meals) Tax | Roanoke, VA

[Ffxdata]

I'll be voting Yes.

People saying they will take it out of the tips are the worst kind of people and probably tip horribly already.

Great American Restaurants has tried three times to get me to sign a NO petition and I politely decline and say that I will be voting yes if it comes up.

The taxes will go up. I'd rather this than property taxes. And those who say that the poor don't pay property taxes, they pay them with a rent increase.

[snowdenscold]

Originally Posted by kevinm

If passed, I will be taking it out of the tip I would have left the server.

Hope you're just trolling, otherwise that's pitiful.