Should I challenge NLT moving violation for poor signage, or just pay? (attorney, price)

[JayInVa]

Yes, go to court if you have a good driving record. Bring pictures. Most of the people commenting here have obviously never spent a day in traffic court.

If you were charged with Failure to Obey a Highway sign the law is pretty clear:

"No provision of this section relating to the prohibition of disobeying signs or violating local traffic signals, markings, and lights shall be enforced against an alleged violator if, at the time and place of the alleged violation, any such sign, signal, marking, or light is not in proper position and sufficiently legible to be seen by an ordinarily observant person."

"Ordinarily observant person" is the key part there. I won in court on a similar charge. In my case the no left turn sign was very difficult to see and the judge agreed with me and found me not guilty. The fact that the officer had 4 other people stopped at the same time as me made it pretty clear an "ordinarily observant person" couldn't see the sign.

It will cost you most of a day in court. The way traffic court works (at least for me in Fairfax County 4 years ago) is that they run through all the cases first and let each person plead guilty or not guilty. If you plead not guilty you have to wait until ALL of the other cases are finished. Then each not guilty case is heard. The judge ALWAYS asked what the defendants driving record was and having a good record made a huge difference even if he found the defendant guilty. The judge was knocking charges down left and right for good drivers (even ones who plead "guilty with an explanation"). Anyone with a bad record was in trouble.

The actual proceedings are pretty simple. When it's your turn, the officer charging you will explain his side. Then you get to explain your side. Pictures are a must in your case.

I was the last case of the day and was done around 1:30.

[Bigfoot424]

LOL. JayInVa has been to court once and is now a SME. But yes, going to court costs you nothing but your time and only you can decide if it's worth it. You'll need to hope you get a sympathetic judge but you have no control over that. Some judges show some compassion on cases like these, if they agree with you, and may dismiss the case or suspend the fine but you still pay the court costs if found guilty. One thing you might try but it's been years since I've been in an Alexandria Court so not sure if you can or not. Request a face to face with the commonwealth attorney handling your court and show them the evidence and see what he/she might do for you. One possible option.


And this charge is a 3 point violation. In VA the points are either 3, 4 or 6.

[dkf747]

Do the lines on the road match the sign? Wouldn't that be a reason to be confused if you're in a marked left turn lane but there is a sign saying no left turn? I'm not sure if that is the situation in the OP because that wasn't made clear, but I'm just wondering which takes precedence when there is a conflict?

[gomason]

Originally Posted by dkf747

Do the lines on the road match the sign? Wouldn't that be a reason to be confused if you're in a marked left turn lane but there is a sign saying no left turn? I'm not sure if that is the situation in the OP because that wasn't made clear, but I'm just wondering which takes precedence when there is a conflict?

There aren't turn lane markings on streets in Old Town including this one. Not sure that would have helped anyway.

[JayInVa]

Originally Posted by Bigfoot424

LOL. JayInVa has been to court once and is now a SME.

LOL, I think you need to read a little better. When did I say I was a SME. I pretty clearly said I sat through one day of traffic court.

Originally Posted by Bigfoot424

Some judges show some compassion on cases like these, if they agree with you, and may dismiss the case or suspend the fine but you still pay the court costs if found guilty.

To state this more clearly: If found not guilty you will not pay court costs. If found guilty you will pay the same fine as on your ticket. You pay court costs if you pre-pay your ticket too (which is the same thing as pleading guilty).

[NC211]

Pictures are worth a 1,000 words. Go take a few pictures and simply show them to the DA. Heck, call and ask if you can email them to the DA and reference your case. They may take a look and simply decide to pull it off the docket before even having to mess with a court visit.






Pictures....get pictures. Absolutely the #1 item to defend yourself with.


6 years ago a cop in a sleepy town outside of Vegas tried to scam me while heading up to Hoover Dam. Said I was going 35 in a 25mph zone. I knew it was bogus when the first words out of his mouth were "I need to see the rental agreement". Guess he'd seen enough white ford mustang convertibles in his time to know who's a tourist passing through and who isn't.


Little did he know....... we had a video camera. A video, which showed us, coming around the bend at 25mph, then approaching a 35mph speed limit sign, with him sitting about 40 yards beyond the 35mph speed limit sign. Wife was taking a video of the pretty scenery while we had the top down. Actually caught the cop's lights coming on to pull us over. That's when we turned off the camera and she put it in her purse.


Busted..... but not me. Sent the video to the local DA from my office in Chicago, said I would be more than happy to come back to Vegas to discuss this situation in person with him, the cop, a judge, and my lawyer to find an appropriate resolution that satisfied all parties involved. Said the whole event ruined our trip by causing extreme emotional distress upon my wife who was not healthy at the time, and I was unimpressed by such policing activities in his little town.


Phone rang about 30 minutes later, apology accepted, case withdrawn.

[Bigfoot424]

Originally Posted by JayInVa

LOL, I think you need to read a little better. When did I say I was a SME. I pretty clearly said I sat through one day of traffic court.



To state this more clearly: If found not guilty you will not pay court costs. If found guilty you will pay the same fine as on your ticket. You pay court costs if you pre-pay your ticket too (which is the same thing as pleading guilty).

If found guilty the judge can fine you whatever he/she wants as long as it stays at or under what state law allows. They can find you guilty then suspend all of the fine but not the court costs. As far as the SME comment I was just busting your chops but please don't post incorrect info.

[leavingwash]

Originally Posted by boyd888

Points are assessed by the DMV, not the court. The court can't "waive" points. The Judge usually mentions this in the opening statement of the session. They would have to convict you of a lesser charge that doesn't have points like defective equipment or something.

I understand that but in an experience a couple of years ago I showed up at court to fight the charge and there was a line of people, they asked the question I shared, and if it was a points situation they wrote it up differently - which to you statement would then be a charge that works differently from a point situation. Don't know all of how "it" works but do know that I ended up paying a fine with no points assessed. Not saying it works everywhere or for everyone, and it would also be dependent on whether a person was having difficulty with finding funds to pay the fine or didn't want the points.

[Bigfoot424]

In VA if you are found guilty of a moving violation there are points and there is nothing a judge can do about it. If you were found guilty of something and your DMV record showed no points from this case then it was reduced to a non moving violation. No other options exist in VA at least.

[JayInVa]

Originally Posted by Bigfoot424

If found guilty the judge can fine you whatever he/she wants as long as it stays at or under what state law allows. They can find you guilty then suspend all of the fine but not the court costs. As far as the SME comment I was just busting your chops but please don't post incorrect info.

What did I post that was incorrect? Please educate me. Are you saying the fine for failure to obey a highway sign (which is probably what the OP was charged with) is not already at the maximum the law allows? I find that very hard to believe, but if you can cite some evidence that would be great.