Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It is apparent that there are quite a number of people living in Northern Virginia who are very dismayed at how haphazardly the region grew over the past few decades into being the very automobile-oriented place it is today. Everywhere you go in NoVA (outside the Beltway) all you see are low-density McMansion housing subdivisions, aging garden-style apartment clusters, wide streets (many with weedy medians), strip malls, gas stations, big-box stores, fast-food restaurants, etc. Sidewalks, curbs, lane markings, or even streetlights aren't nearly as commonplace as they should be for an area with well over a million people. Due to the transience of the populace, the lack of incorporated communities, the lack of mixed-use developments and walkable neighborhoods, and the promotion of the automobile civic pride in NoVA is waning, and many people say they don't feel they can "associate" themselves with the area. I'm one of many in my demographic who say I live in "Metropolitan Washington" because there's just nothing unique or special about Reston, my own "census designated place", that I can relate to and tie myself to. The fault lies within when this era was developed. My prior generation wasn't very enlightened on long-range urban planning issues, and with a plethora of open space at the time to develop little emphasis (if any) was placed upon how to best manage land to meet the needs of not only those existing times but also for future genrations (i.e. my own).
Efforts are now currently underway to spend billions of our tax dollars to retrofit Tyson's Corner from the current urban blight that it is to a sustainable, pedestrian-, cyclist-, and transit-oriented, and relatively carbon neutral environment. People in Reston are currently having regular meetings to discuss our own long-range comprehensive plan via the "Land Use College." I'm in the camp that wishes to see Reston increase its density to preserve open space as the community grows while also concentrating this future dense development near to future mass transit stations (which are now jeopardized thanks to the toll road whiners, but I digress). I'm not as familiar with the Springfield area but from what I've heard there's been a lot of talk lately about infill development there as well. It seems like all over Fairfax County people are starting to "wake up" to realize that the region in its current state is in terrible shape and needs a major overhaul. The reason why we have the nation's second-worst traffic congestion is due to the poor planning decisions of my prior generation (i.e. not realizing that all of those semi-isolated suburban dueling cul-de-sacs needed to "feed" onto other roads, all of which would become terribly congested by 2009).
I'm hoping this thread will serve as the facilitation of a great discussion for newcomers, old-timers, and prospective newbies alike to share their sentiments and to reflect upon what they think needs to be done to make NoVA (Outside the Beltway) better. What can be done to give people a better sense of civic pride, neighborhood spirit, and community identity? What can be done to ease our commuting woes? What can be done to successfully retrofit suburban "experiments" gone awry, such as Tyson's Corner or Reston? What can be done to better distribute the affluence in our area (i.e. not all of the uber-affluent in Great Falls/not all of the struggling working poor in Sterling Park)? How will this all be funded? Is this area capable of being "fixed?"
I may be wrong but haven't you discussed this, at length, in previous threads? I would hope you would have taken steps already to rectify our mess here in NOVA and not rely on this BB as any way to guide our designated "urban planners"...
I may be wrong but haven't you discussed this, at length, in previous threads? I would hope you would have taken steps already to rectify our mess here in NOVA and not rely on this BB as any way to guide our designated "urban planners"...
What's wrong with discussing what is wrong about the area in hopes of brainstorming ways to fix it? What "steps" can I have taken to overhaul the region? Who are the county's long-term regional and urban planners, anyways?
Face it - many Americans like and want the suburban experience. Multitudes of Northern Virginians came here from other parts of the country, and if you look across America, you will find that cities are often work places, not living places for the people who have means. That's why core-periphery divisions occur, with the periphery winning out and expanding more and more (in an economically successful place). In many American cities, the sidewalks virtually roll up in evenings and weekends.
When these people move here from their suburban lives in other states, they expect to find a similar experience. Look at the posts of people relocating here - for each one who wants an urban, walkable mixed-use place to live, you've probably got 10 or more asking about Burke, Woodbridge, Gainesville(!), Springfield, etc. They want the yard, the space away from neighbors, the cul-de-sacs and non-busy streets where kids can ride a bike or set up a basketball hoop at the end of the street. They want the big box stores with ample parking lots, they like the chain restaurants. They'd like to live close to work and good schools, but when they discover the prices for what they had in mind, they decide not to buy the 1940s or 1960s house with small rooms, but instead opt for living even further out (expanding that periphery) so they can get the space they expect.
I don't think they want more density, or living vertically. Of course, their chosen way of life creates the traffic problems we have, and it's why I wouldn't be able to stand living in Ffx Co.
As for suggestions... light rail to tie the various major 'burbs of Ffx Co together? I don't expect to see that happen, though.
many people say they don't feel they can "associate" themselves with the area. I'm one of many in my demographic who say I live in "Metropolitan Washington" because there's just nothing unique or special about Reston, my own "census designated place", that I can relate to and tie myself to.
I disagree - I think there is something very special about Reston. When I moved to this area in 2002 I considered Vienna, Herndon, Oak Hill, Sterling, Potomac Falls, Ashburn, and Reston. Reston was the only place I felt was uniquie. A truly special place to live.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScranBarre
Due to the transience of the populace, the lack of incorporated communities, the lack of mixed-use developments and walkable neighborhoods, and the promotion of the automobile civic pride in NoVA is waning, and many people say they don't feel they can "associate" themselves with the area.
I consider my neighborhood very "walkable" - I can walk to the swimming pool, tennis court, local shopping center, and my favorite - into the woods of the Walker Nature Center. We have accessible sidewalks and walking paths that make for a very enjoyable lifestyle. I very much "associate" with Reston!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScranBarre
I'm in the camp that wishes to see Reston increase its density to preserve open space as the community grows while also concentrating this future dense development near to future mass transit stations (which are now jeopardized thanks to the toll road whiners, but I digress). I'm not as familiar with the Springfield area but from what I've heard there's been a lot of talk lately about infill development there as well. It seems like all over Fairfax County people are starting to "wake up" to realize that the region in its current state is in terrible shape and needs a major overhaul. The reason why we have the nation's second-worst traffic congestion is due to the poor planning decisions of my prior generation (i.e. not realizing that all of those semi-isolated suburban dueling cul-de-sacs needed to "feed" onto other roads, all of which would become terribly congested by 2009).
I think Reston's open spaces are special and a great benefit to those who live here. I also don't think that a "major overhaul" is needed. I agree that traffic is a problem but don't attribute it to the localized issues with feeder roads onto the major roads. Geology is our biggest traffic problem - namely the Potomac River. We just don't have enough river crossings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScranBarre
What can be done to give people a better sense of civic pride, neighborhood spirit, and community identity?
Stay here for a few years and you will discover that people in Reston do have a sense of civic pride, neighborhood spirit, and community identity. That is one of the major reasons I chose Reston over the other areas that I investigated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScranBarre
What can be done to successfully retrofit suburban "experiments" gone awry, such as Tyson's Corner or Reston?
I don't think that Reston is an "experiments" gone awry. I think it is a successful suburban community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScranBarre
What can be done to better distribute the affluence in our area (i.e. not all of the uber-affluent in Great Falls/not all of the struggling working poor in Sterling Park)? How will this all be funded? Is this area capable of being "fixed?"
I think Reston does a very good job with integration of all people. Great Falls and Sterling Park are not Reston and never will be. That is what is great about Reston. I don't think Reston needs to be "fixed". I'm a happy camper living in Reston.
Face it - many Americans like and want the suburban experience. Multitudes of Northern Virginians came here from other parts of the country, and if you look across America, you will find that cities are often work places, not living places for the people who have means. That's why core-periphery divisions occur, with the periphery winning out and expanding more and more (in an economically successful place). In many American cities, the sidewalks virtually roll up in evenings and weekends.
When these people move here from their suburban lives in other states, they expect to find a similar experience. Look at the posts of people relocating here - for each one who wants an urban, walkable mixed-use place to live, you've probably got 10 or more asking about Burke, Woodbridge, Gainesville(!), Springfield, etc. They want the yard, the space away from neighbors, the cul-de-sacs and non-busy streets where kids can ride a bike or set up a basketball hoop at the end of the street. They want the big box stores with ample parking lots, they like the chain restaurants. They'd like to live close to work and good schools, but when they discover the prices for what they had in mind, they decide not to buy the 1940s or 1960s house with small rooms, but instead opt for living even further out (expanding that periphery) so they can get the space they expect.
I really do tend to think the majority of people moving here miss the "big picture" though. For the sake of this discussion I will once again be posting a few aerial images of select locations in NoVA for illustrative purposes. I will NOT be making any sort of nasty commentary on these photos that got me in trouble with suburb lovers in the past, but I just wanted to better illustrate what the "status quo" has been doing to this entire region:
These images provide everyone with a pretty clear understanding of just what a good majority of NoVA (Outside the Beltway) looks like. It may look fine and dandy from street level, but when you actually survey the entire consumed land area from outer space it is quite sobering just to see how inefficiently we have used our land to house people. I personally just don't see how any of this is supposed to be sustainable in the long-term, especially if fuel prices rise again. How many amenities are within walking distance of these neighborhoods? All of these cul-de-sacs "funnel" onto two-lane feeder roads that drain into four-lane roads like Route 7, which becomes very congested, even on weekends. This wide dispersement of the population makes efficient mass transit planning nearly impossible.
I also think it's ironic that all of these people rushing to buy homes like this are trying to get a taste of the country, but, in doing so, they are effectively reducing the amount of open space and woodlands we have by buying fully cleared building lots so they can look at the pretty grass. I made this argument on some Reston-related blogs and will make it here on City-Data as well. Does it make more sense to subdivide a 10-acre parcel into twenty 1/2-acre building lots for single-family homes, perhaps housing 100 people and completely clear-cutting vegetation in the process, or would it be better to use just five acres of that to house thrice the population by building VERTICALLY while preserving the other five acres as open space (or using part of it for a new mass transit station, on-site grocery store, etc.?) Not "everyone" can or SHOULD live in the environments of the images I posted above. If we're going to continue development like this with our anticipated rapid population growth in the coming years, then just imagine our current traffic congestion issues DOUBLING!
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbobobbo
I don't think they want more density, or living vertically. Of course, their chosen way of life creates the traffic problems we have, and it's why I wouldn't be able to stand living in Ffx Co.
I'm increasingly not being able to withstand living in Fairfax County either because it feels so "new", "sterile", and "car-crazy." I just don't understand where the "charm" is supposed to be when much of it looks like the images I posted above (although to be fair those images are of the Ashburn/Sterling area, over the county line, but there are many fine examples right here in Fairfax as well). It's quite peculiar when you think about it. Many of the same people whining about traffic congestion are contributors themselves by living in such 100% car-dependent environments. Do they want to have their cake and eat it too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbobobbo
As for suggestions... light rail to tie the various major 'burbs of Ffx Co together? I don't expect to see that happen, though.
I started this thread because I wanted to see suggestions such as this. I'm more concerned right now with where the many billions of tax dollars to fund the restoration of NoVA is supposed to come from? The population as it is is just too far dispersed to make mass transit very effective. Even the Silver Line probably still won't ease the congestion on Route 7 very much, and I'm one of those who can't wait to ride the rails between my apartment and office.
Face it - many Americans like and want the suburban experience. Multitudes of Northern Virginians came here from other parts of the country, and if you look across America, you will find that cities are often work places, not living places for the people who have means. That's why core-periphery divisions occur, with the periphery winning out and expanding more and more (in an economically successful place). In many American cities, the sidewalks virtually roll up in evenings and weekends.
When these people move here from their suburban lives in other states, they expect to find a similar experience. Look at the posts of people relocating here - for each one who wants an urban, walkable mixed-use place to live, you've probably got 10 or more asking about Burke, Woodbridge, Gainesville(!), Springfield, etc. They want the yard, the space away from neighbors, the cul-de-sacs and non-busy streets where kids can ride a bike or set up a basketball hoop at the end of the street. They want the big box stores with ample parking lots, they like the chain restaurants. They'd like to live close to work and good schools, but when they discover the prices for what they had in mind, they decide not to buy the 1940s or 1960s house with small rooms, but instead opt for living even further out (expanding that periphery) so they can get the space they expect.
I don't think they want more density, or living vertically. Of course, their chosen way of life creates the traffic problems we have, and it's why I wouldn't be able to stand living in Ffx Co.
As for suggestions... light rail to tie the various major 'burbs of Ffx Co together? I don't expect to see that happen, though.
But, unfortunately the suburban experience today, especially in the more sprawling suburbs is not the IDEAL experience.
The suburban experience most "suburban-minded" people want, I believe, is a leafy suburb of sidewalks, attractive homes, and an identifiable town center that is not too dense and within walking distance of most homes. In addition to a rail station, the commercial area would have an attractive mix of cafes, stores, banks, pharmacies, and perhaps a couple low-rise apartment buildings. Schools and parks are close to the homes as well and within walking distance. This is the suburbia portrayed most often in the movies. Suburban communities around the US that closely resemble this include, but are not limited to, parts of Arlington VA, Chevy Chase DC & MD, Winchester MA, Riverside IL, Winnetka IL, Maplewood and South Orange NJ, Rye NY, Highland Park TX, Brentwood CA, Palo Alto CA, etc. Unfortunately these suburbs are for the most part far too expensive for the "average" American.
Additionally this ideal suburb is not far from the city center, is safe from crime, and has a good road network.
I don't think people particularly seek out suburbs that look like Burke, Centreville, or Chantilly. Typical sprawl is not what people like, but most are willing to live with it. And that's the truth.
J, I've volunteered recently to help out at the Reston Regional Libary book sale (and will be there tomorrow as well after church to assist with the sale and take-down). I'm meeting people at my church and also have immediate volunteer plans there. I went to the first Land Use College session and decided not to attend any further ones since I sensed that my ideologies of increasing density in Reston in order to accommodate more people without losing more open space were in the unwelcome minority (much as how the anti-Brown's Chapel indoor recreational center groups were very snarky/nasty with the pro-rec center groups). In the interest of not wanting to be labeled a "trouble maker" (I was even formally introduced to the apparently much-maligned Supervisor Hudgins) I'm abstaining from further participation. I'm going to be sending in $10 soon to help fund the Reston license plate drive (even if I'm no longer living here when they're finally produced). I'd like to help out with community litter clean-ups. It's not like I'm just sitting on my rear-end complaining about Reston and not doing anything about it. I just honestly feel like I'm living in a typical American suburb and still don't see what makes it "one of a kind," as has been proclaimed by many. I drive down a windy two-lane road with few sidewalks, curbs, or streetlights past low-density garden-style apartment units to access a busy four-lane road to get to my office, passing many neutral-toned McMansions in the process as well. I'm within walking distance of Best Buy, Barnes & Noble, Macaroni Grill, and other chains. I'm not a terribly long walk from Target, the YMCA, Chick-Fil-A, etc., but I don't feel comfortable crossing all of the very wide and busy streets to get there. Reston has chain restaurants, big-box stores, traffic congestion, and a great deal of low-density residential zoning. The downtown ("town center") feels like an afterthought developed at the last-minute instead of a place that the town gravitated towards originally and grew up around and dependent upon (as should have been done). I don't see how that really clarifies it as being different from many other American suburbs.
I've read all about Mr. Simon's grand vision for the "new town", and while I agree with many of those facets as being a good start for a great community I don't really see some of them as having been successfully realized. You can't really eschew your car if you live in Reston, as was originally hoped; the trail systems are nice for a stroll, but most don't really connect day-to-day destinations. Reston's increasingly upper-middle-class orientation means that Mr. Simon's original plan for people from all walks of life to live here comfortably at all stages of life is being compromised for those on the lower socioeconomic rungs---as a prime example I'm college-educated (en route to my MBA) and make over $40,000 per year (not exactly an awful salary for a 22-year-old) and was barely able to afford one of Reston's relatively inexpensive 1-BR apartments. How could a single working mother afford to live here? A single person who wasn't college-educated and had a correspondingly lower income? That will only worsen when average rents (and housing values) spike if and when the Loudoun County toll road whiners give up and let Reston get its much-needed Metrorail stations. The 2010 Census will likely reflect Reston having a population of roughly 65,000. That is expected to grow considerably in the coming years. Where would you rather they all go? In several "garish" high-rises clustered around Metro stations to decrease the number of vehicle trips they'll be making or spread out in a ton of new single-family detached dwelllings, clear-cutting many acres of land in the process, and increasing the burden on our already overtaxed streets? (Try driving to Chantilly/Centreville at some time during the evening rush or even just turning left out of Parc Reston onto Temporary Road).
From what I understand Mr. Simon himself is actually a proponent of Metrorail and of more transit-oriented development to provide Restonians with greater opportunities to access the District, so I'm incredulous that many in the "anti-density" camps keep referencing him in an attempt to show that new high-rises are in direct conflict with Mr. Simon's grandiose vision.
I don't "hate" Reston, nor have I ever. It seems like a beautiful place to raise a family, and maybe I'm just at the wrong "life stage" to fully see how it is superior to the rest of NoVA. I'm just honestly still not seeing the "special" qualities it has that the over-50 crowd here brags about. I grew up in a Scranton suburb. It also had chain restaurants, gas stations, traffic congestion, a dearth of sidewalks, HOAs, SUVs/minivans, etc. Reston is only "special" to me because they managed to successfully retain so many trees. Otherwise if you were to remove much of the tree canopy Reston would just look like any other 'burb (save for the town center skyline).
Most people don't want to live "vertically". Unless the American Dream changes, you will not see much change. If you went vertical in FFX County then you'd probably see the same "white flight" that previous generations in the cities saw.
But, unfortunately the suburban experience today, especially in the more sprawling suburbs is not the IDEAL experience.
The suburban experience most "suburban-minded" people want, I believe, is a leafy suburb of sidewalks, attractive homes, and an identifiable town center that is not too dense and within walking distance of most homes. In addition to a rail station, the commercial area would have an attractive mix of cafes, stores, banks, pharmacies, and perhaps a couple low-rise apartment buildings. Schools and parks are close to the homes as well and within walking distance. This is the suburbia portrayed most often in the movies. Suburban communities around the US that closely resemble this include, but are not limited to, parts of Arlington VA, Chevy Chase DC & MD, Winchester MA, Riverside IL, Winnetka IL, Maplewood and South Orange NJ, Rye NY, Highland Park TX, Brentwood CA, Palo Alto CA, etc. Unfortunately these suburbs are for the most part far too expensive for the "average" American.
Additionally this ideal suburb is not far from the city center, is safe from crime, and has a good road network.
I don't think people particularly seek out suburbs that look like Burke, Centreville, or Chantilly. Typical sprawl is not what people like, but most are willing to live with it. And that's the truth.
Once again to tickle cdmurphy (and try to boost her property value for her through positive word-of-mouth!) I will reference Brambleton. This part of Loudoun County is a fine example of how you can have both a new construction suburban atmosphere AND walkable community-like components. I've only been there a couple of times when friends from South Riding wanted to see a movie, but I was always very impressed by it. Instead of what was shown in my images above you have single-family detached homes on sidewalked streets that actually LEAD somewhere. There's a Harris Teeter there, a movie theater, Johnny Rocket's, a Mexican place, professional offices, small stores, Blue Ridge Grille, and community-oriented features like a park with a venue for performing arts. Do you still need a car to live there? Yes. However, living in a place like Brambleton vs. living in a place like the ones in my aerial images would likely reduce your need to drive to conveniences by half, lessening the burden on our roads and lowering stress levels.
It just boggles my mind why more "Brambleton"-like communities aren't being developed promoted in the region. I believe THAT is truly what most suburbanites want---some elbow room and privacy with a yard to call their own for their kids to run amok BUT ALSO a sense of community spirit and a few shops/restaurants nearby to patronize. If that's what most of us want, then why are we just getting CRAP?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The population as it is is just too far dispersed to make mass transit very effective. Even the Silver Line probably still won't ease the congestion on Route 7 very much, and I'm one of those who can't wait to ride the rails between my apartment and office.
I will reference Brambleton. This part of Loudoun County is a fine example of how you can have both a new construction suburban atmosphere AND walkable community-like components. I've only been there a couple of times when friends from South Riding wanted to see a movie, but I was always very impressed by it. Instead of what was shown in my images above you have single-family detached homes on sidewalked streets that actually LEAD somewhere. There's a Harris Teeter there, a movie theater, Johnny Rocket's, a Mexican place, professional offices, small stores, Blue Ridge Grille, and community-oriented features like a park with a venue for performing arts. Do you still need a car to live there? Yes. However, living in a place like Brambleton vs. living in a place like the ones in my aerial images would likely reduce your need to drive to conveniences by half, lessening the burden on our roads and lowering stress levels. 
