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If you want fairness, why didn't our property tax rates drop when property valuations DOUBLED from 2003-2008.
Huh, as the value of your home increases, then the amount of tax you pay increases, not decreases.
Anyway, the property taxes in Hawaii are way to low compared to much the rest of the US, and it is reflected in the poor public school system and infrastructure.
Originally Posted by pj737 View Post
If you want fairness, why didn't our property tax rates drop when property valuations DOUBLED from 2003-2008.
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Originally Posted by whtviper1
Huh, as the value of your home increases, then the amount of tax you pay increases, not decreases.
Anyway, the property taxes in Hawaii are way to low compared to much the rest of the US, and it is reflected in the poor public school system and infrastructure.
Please re-read my post. I said property tax RATE drop. Valuations skyrocketed... more than doubled in some cases but the rate stayed the same. That means the city has literally doubled revenue simply from increased property values but nobody received a tax rate reduction.
Our residential property tax rates are low because property valuations are extremely high compared to other states... also our state income taxes are highest in the country and people pay the highest rate (in the country) on sales/medical/clothes/food/rent/services/utilities/everything tax via the union's only true GET. Also, commercial and hotel property tax rates are among the highest in the country. It's literally only the residential tax rates that are low and they should be because collections in other areas are very, very high comparatively speaking.
Please re-read my post. I said property tax RATE drop. Valuations skyrocketed... more than doubled in some cases but the rate stayed the same. That means the city has literally doubled revenue simply from increased property values but nobody received a tax rate reduction.
Our residential property tax rates are low because property valuations are extremely high compared to other states... also our state income taxes are highest in the country and people pay the highest rate (in the country) on sales/medical/clothes/food/rent/services/utilities/everything tax via the union's only true GET. Also, commercial and hotel property tax rates are among the highest in the country. It's literally only the residential tax rates that are low and they should be because collections in other areas are very, very high comparatively speaking.
That is the way it works - value goes up, your tax bill goes up. That is the way it should work. Taxes shouldn't go down.
Anyway, let's take a $800,000 place in San Francisco and a $800,000 place on Oahu. The SF place will pay over $8,000 annually in property taxes per year. The place in Oahu will pay a fraction of that, off the top of my head, about $2,000 (that's nothing)
So few people pay the highest state tax rate in Hawaii. Let's take someone making $50,000, Hawaii State tax rate is 8.25% versus 9.3% in California.
Taxes are way to low here to support islands in the middle of the Pacific.
Huh, as the value of your home increases, then the amount of tax you pay increases, not decreases.
Anyway, the property taxes in Hawaii are way to low compared to much the rest of the US, and it is reflected in the poor public school system and infrastructure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whtviper1
That is the way it works - value goes up, your tax bill goes up. That is the way it should work. Taxes shouldn't go down.
Anyway, let's take a $800,000 place in San Francisco and a $800,000 place on Oahu. The SF place will pay over $8,000 annually in property taxes per year. The place in Oahu will pay a fraction of that, off the top of my head, about $2,000 (that's nothing)
So few people pay the highest state tax rate in Hawaii. Let's take someone making $50,000, Hawaii State tax rate is 8.25% versus 9.3% in California.
Taxes are way to low here to support islands in the middle of the Pacific.
Fair enough... I agree tax rates should not drop. But if revenue increases at a rate higher than the local CPI, what justifies FURTHER increases in tax RATES? I'm all good with increases based on valuations... it's when they start messing with rates is when I have issues.
The city was doing just fine when my single family home was valued at $400,000 back in 2003. They were collecting $1,400/annually. Fast forward to 2008 and the property value skyrocketed to $850,000. So now I'm paying $3,000 in taxes. They are collecting more than 100% the taxes in 2008 then in 2003 yet services remained static (or were reduced in some cases). How did the city survive on $1,400 and now they can't survive on $3,000? Even if inflation and salaries increased at ~1.8% annually? Fuzzy math?
Your off the top of head figure is off. $800K valuation is $2,800 in annual taxes - not $2,000.
San Francisco is not the best example. For one, the residents' salaries in those counties are way way higher than those counties taxed in Hawaii. Second, SF residents don't pay GET. If you rent a home for $4,000 in SF, there are no taxes to pay. Here you have to pay $2,160 annually in state taxes literally for a roof over your head... something that you don't pay a dime for in SF. Same with every single piece of food you buy here for basic human needs - 4.5% please - thank you very much. Medical? Yup. Utilities? Yup. All at the same 4.5% rate. SF pays nothing. Add it all up and we pay more in taxes in Hawaii than residents in SF. People here focus on little things like property tax when you're paying the highest state income tax and most caustic, regressive "sales" tax in the nation. The big picture puts us in the worst states tax-wise.
As for public school education quality, I completely disagree. It's not politically correct to say this but the reason our reading numbers are so awful is because of socioeconomics and demographics of the specific neighborhoods these schools are in. Most of the wealthy people here are really wealthy so they send their kids to private schools which hurts the pool of students in public schools as a whole. Public schools in Oahu neighborhoods that have the same level of affluence as those in SF perform as good if not better than those in SF. People here blame teachers and the system. I almost married one the the state's top educators and I heard it every single day from her. She was one of the few that taught in both wealthier and the poorest demographics/neighborhoods on Oahu. Most people have no idea why we have our education problems simply because nobody has the cajones to speak the truth. Media filters the truth. As do politicians and everyone else at the pulpit. If your child was surrounded by children from poor families it's statistically proven that he/she will perform much much worse than if he/she was surrounded by children from affluent families regardless of stellar parenting. People don't send kids to private school for better curriculums or higher standards of teaching. Some of the best teachers I know work for public schools... some of the worst for Punahou. They send them there to surround their children around children from affluent families. It gives them the best learning environment regardless of the quality of the school and staff itself.
Let's do this - let's agree to disagree. We need higher taxes (my opinion) to further deter population growth. I look at many of the wacky threads just on this forum and they need more incentives to not move. Oahu is overpopulated as it is. Higher taxes can help control that better.
Oahu is overpopulated as it is. Higher taxes can help control that better.
I 100% agree... the problem is higher taxation is forcing locals to throw in the towel and move! Leaving us with a state chock full of uber-wealthy transplants.
You ask why should Hawaii be any different? Hmmmm... maybe because those 21 other states that you feel we should be lumped in with Amazon has a clear physical presence via distribution centers and wholly owned subsidiaries. Amazon has no such presence in Hawaii. None nada zilch.
All that speaks to is the leverage those 21 states have to force collection of their existing taxes due to Amazon's desire to maintain physical presence in those states. We shouldn't have to force them to do the right thing.
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If you want fairness, why didn't our ... yadda yadda...
The fairness or not of other tax laws has nothing to do with this law, which requires GET be paid on merchandise delivered within this state.
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...the real reason I support Amazon is because it saves local residents big big money (much much MUCH more money than what those that live in all other states save) which makes our standard of living better for less money... which then allows us to pump more money into our LOCAL economy where we feel it benefits the most.
Amazon offers rapid access to an enormously wide selection of merchandise, much of it at discounted prices, providing a real value proposition to Hawaiian residents. I don't feel the 4% GET, if collected by Amazon, would alter that dynamic much, if at all.
I don't believe "locals" are moving away in great numbers that hadn't already planned to do so already.
Let's face it. It should be painfully difficult to live in Hawaii. It's a small island in the middle of the Pacific with limited land and resources. Quite frankly, it's not hard enough to live here.
Location: not sure, but there's a hell of a lot of water around here!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whtviper1
Let's face it. It should be painfully difficult to live in Hawaii. It's a small island in the middle of the Pacific with limited land and resources. Quite frankly, it's not hard enough to live here.
My point is with rising population which the islands can't sustain, prices and taxes still have a lot of room to go up. We need the population growth to slow dramatically.
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