Does Ohio have traditionally southern cultural elements? (Cincinnati, Dayton: camp, living in)

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by Dayton Sux

The Appalachian culture in Ohio is of two or maybe three parts.

There is the "relocated redneck" Southern Appalchian culture in SW Ohio (Cincy, Dayton, Hamilton, Middletown, Springfield), which has bled into the surrounding countryside since these folks, when they moved out of the cities liked to go country... minifarms, country villages, etc.... so you get that feel in rural areas like Greene County, too..

You know you have a serious southern cultural influence when a country star like Tom T Hall sees fit to compose and sing a song entilted "The Rolling Mills of Middletown".

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Now the geographical Appalachia in Ohio is pretty damn southern Appalachia. Thinking oF New Boston, Porstmouth, Hanging Rock, Wellston, Waverly, Zanesville etc....all this area is no different than West Viriginia, IMO. Same culture, same people, same ancestry.

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Now when you get north in this Ohio hill country...say maybe toward Dover and New Philadelphia, I think we might be moving to that "Northern Appalachia" thats mentioned upthread (what I recall from PA and the Southern Tier of New York State). Dont know that part of the state well enough to say (did travel through once, backroading to Canton and Akron).

I've only briefly spent time in and around Cincinnati, but none of it ever struck me as "relocated rednecks," and neither did Dayton. If anything, Cincinnati seemed like a blend of Pittsburgh and St. Louis.

The areas I see being more like southern West Virginia and eastern Kentucky include towns like Athens, Caldwell, Chillicothe, Gallipolis, Hillsboro, Ironton, Jackson, Logan, Marietta, McConnellsville, Nelsonville, New Lexington, Portsmouth, Waverly, Wellston, West Union and Woodsfield.

The areas I see being more like western Pennsylvania and northern West Virginia include towns like Alliance, Cambridge, Carrollton, Columbiana, Coshocton, Dover, East Liverpool, Lisbon, Martins Ferry, New Philadelphia, St. Clairsville, Salem, Steubenville, Uhrichsville and Zanesville, plus the cities of Canton and Youngstown.

Here's a map illustrating how I'd divide the Appalachian region of Ohio:



The northern Appalachian counties resemble western Pennsylvania and northern West Virginia. They're more urban and industrialized, and have a large Catholic population. The central Appalachian counties resemble eastern Kentucky and southern West Virginia. They're much more rural and isolated, and have a large Protestant population.

[No_Recess]

The whole Appalachian tag is more of a political construct nowadays. It was first devised in the 60s to build infrastructure, namely roads. Mahoning County, including Youngstown, was just recently added to the region for federal aid. I would venture to say that there are probably 0 to 1 Confederate flags currently flying on a porch in Mahoning County. In Columbiana County, immediately to the south, they are all over the place including bumper stickers and on the t-shirts of locals.

[sandwalk]

Nothing southern about where I'm from.....

[Dayton Sux]

I've only briefly spent time in and around Cincinnati, but none of it ever struck me as "relocated rednecks," and neither did Dayton. If anything, Cincinnati seemed like a blend of Pittsburgh and St. Louis.

I agree about Cincinnati being a world unto itself and not 'southern'.

Dayton was originally pretty much a Midwestern place like, say, Indianapolis or Columbus, and was starting to recieve a bit of that Southern/Eastern European immigation(before WWI closed that door), but not enough to make it seem like Toledo or Cleveland.

Instead, starting in the 1930s, the Miami Valley....the Dayton area plus Middletown, Hamilton, and Springfield....recieved such a substantial in-migration from KY, Tenn, WVA, and a bit of VA, enough to change the character of the place to something more 'southern' than one would expect.

This is sort of referenced in any number of country and bluegrass songs. For a direct Ohio connection there is Dwight Yokum and his 'Reading, Writing, Route 23" song.

But this is more of a cultural appalachia. The geographical one is pretty well drawn on the above maps, though the Appalachian Regional Commission boundary for the region is over-generous...as noted in that remark upthread on Youngstown.

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Here's a link to a little site on the Viriginia Military District, showing a region of Ohio that historically had a Southern ancestry connection:

Virginia Military District MIGRATION 1790

...this isn't necessarily "Appalachia", as we understand it, but more of that Upper South cultural region....

[Dayton Sux]

The approximate southern two-thirds of the state was settled by people from Virginia.

Not 2/3rds...PA, NJ, and even Maryland sent settlers to Ohio during the frontier era. PA was probably the largest contributor after the New England/New York settlers up in the Western Reserve/Firelands area. The Dayton area was settled initially by New Jersey pioneers, followed by Pennsylvanians, and Marylanders from the Frederick area.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by Dayton Sux

Not 2/3rds...PA, NJ, and even Maryland sent settlers to Ohio during the frontier era.

The earliest pioneers from Massachusetts and Connecticut preceded them, and founded Marietta.

The Virginia Military District encompassed just a sliver of the state. Influential, yes, but only on a small portion of the state.

The history of the survey and settlement of the Northwest Territory is pretty fascinating.

[CortlandGirl79]

I live in northeastern Ohio, in Trumbull County which is home to the first capital of the Connecticut Western Reserve. Many of the towns in NE Ohio resemble New England towns. Yes, this area was originally settle by people from Connecticut and Pennsylvania (most of my mom's ancestors are from Pennsylvania), but starting in the late 1800s through the 1950s this area was settle by mostly immigrants coming to work in the steel mills and factories. My dad is a second generation American. There are many Germans, Irish, Italians, Greeks, Slovaks, Puerto Ricans,etc in this area along with those from West Virginia and Pa that came to work in the steel and auto industries. The Connecticut thing hasn't really applied for probably 150 years and I would say that most people that live here are not descendants for those people from Connecticut. Most of the people in the Youngstown/Warren area are descendants for immigrants that come to this country in the 20th century.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by 5Lakes

Southeast Ohio is Appalachian in character much like West Virginia, which gives Ohio an aspect unlike other states in the Midwest. However, like it was mentioned above, Appalachia does not necessarily mean southern.



Ohio is actually pretty regional compared to most states, probably because it borders southern states, midwest states, and northeast states. It's certainly different than Illinois, where you have the urban great lakes feel of Chicagoland vs. a very rural midwest feel for the rest of the state.

Here is some info about that:

The University of Akron : BIOP #2: The "Five Ohios"

Why have they included an isolated enclave in western TN? That seems a bit odd.

[Natural510]

Originally Posted by Ohioan58

Warren County around Lebanon is reallly big into horses, and consequently, this particular pocket of the state has strong southern plantation Bluegrass inspired snob airs around it. Lots of people are around there with a cocked up attitude that they're entitled to social deference, yet they're just ignorant hicks, like the general populace of Ohio.

Appalachian vibes are found as far west as Ross and Pike counties. I have relatives in Pike County that play bluegrass as a local thing that virtually everyone there does.

There's an unpleasant southern white trash element to the Dayton-Cincinnati region. The harshness of northern factory work life and "Taylorism" - scientific workplace management - collided squarely with Appy anti-authoritarian culture, and the result is sullen, diffident locals who resent everything. Basically you've had briars here under economic duress to stay here even though they "hate" the north, although over the decades they've settled in and formed their own local subculture.

South eastern Ohio is coal and oil country, just like WV.

The dividing line between southern sympathizers and northern culture is almost always taken as US 40 or I-70 which I endorse as correct.

I'd say that as you get north out of Dayton and farther north, say north of Sidney, you get out of the relocated redneck belt and you're into a more traditional Midwestern stock of settlers originally from New England and Northern Europe. I think NE Ohio is a mixed bag with lots of people from all over the country attracted to the steel mills and factories of the past century, having moved there.

So there's my arrogant, biting the hand that doesn't feed me, looking-down-on view of Ohio's southern-ness.

This post just puts puts everything in perspective, especially the bolded. I had been trying to figure it out for five years now. Thank you.

[saba2r]

I'm from small town southwest Ohio. There is a difference between southern and "country". I grew up on a farm but my family is not "southern" in nature at all. I agree with the other posters who have pointed out the differences between southern and Appalachian.