Ohio, pulled in two directions (Cleveland, Dayton: how much, public school, taxes)

[SlideRules99]

Originally Posted by TheProf

Diversity of political views is one thing. I can have an honest discussion and debate with a traditional Republican (supply-side economics; small government, reducing regulations, etc) and would welcome them into the neighborhood and marketplace of ideas. But this new MAGA, election-denying, Jan- 6 supporting far-right iteration of the GOP is beyond the pale. Not only are they not worthy of debate and not suitable for any neighborhood I want to live in; they should be watched by the authorities. Unfortunately, this is what Ohio and the Ohio GOP are morphing into ... Very dangerous.

What portion of the 53% R voters in OH do you deem to be “MAGA” types, and hence unworthy of being your neighbor, and subject to surveillance by the authorities?

[thinkalot]

Originally Posted by sheena12

I agree. I have had such discussions. But these people are impossible to debate. This new breed of "Republican" is unreasonable. I mean "unreasonable" literally. They can not reason, and their "debates are befouled with racism, name-calling, hatred, sentimental patriotism, and religion.

The other side would say the same.

I saw an ad for a fundraiser for a R candidate. It had a list of sponsors that happen to be among the most successful in Trumbull County. I know some MAGA republicans in Trumbull County. They are doing fine, have grad degrees, and seem to live a normal life. They do happen to be Catholic. Don't think only the bottom feeders fall for it.

I disagree with both parties, or maybe I should say what the parties are today. I was a Rockefeller republican. I guess I still am. Not many people I can vote for now.

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by SlideRules99

What portion of the 53% R voters in OH do you deem to be “MAGA” types, and hence unworthy of being your neighbor, and subject to surveillance by the authorities?

I'll answer this one. I don't know what percentage of Republicans in OH is "MAGA" types. Whoever is a "MAGA" type, I'd prefer not to live near. And yes, if they are OK - or enthusiastic about any of the vile and incendiary remarks about Mexicans, the disabled, Muslims, and many others, then no. They are not worthy of being my neighbor. In OH. In NY. In any state.

I also do not want to live in an area filled with Klan members, neo-Nazis, Proud Boys, or other hate groups.

[ohio_peasant]

Originally Posted by sheena12

...Both of us are saddened by the path that Ohio has taken. It's disturbing.

We didn't want to move to the Bible Belt, but it seems the Bible Belt has moved to us.

Culturally, the midsection of every nation, away from the principal cities, will be more conservative and more religious.

Ohio led innovation in technology, in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Cleveland and Dayton, just to give two examples, were hives of invention, in the tech of the time. For whatever reason, that spirit of innovation waned after WW2. It migrated to the Coasts. Then, just as the South came to develop more, becoming more affluent and worldly, the Midwest faded, so that now there’s little cultural distinction in the swath between Minnesota and Alabama, and that includes Ohio… with the patch around Cleveland, for now, perhaps as vestigial outlier.

The prevalence of good economic prospects, tends to mask cultural disagreement. If most of us are doing reliably well, we have little cause to bicker over the political wedge-issues. Cocktail parties can be filled with work-related anecdotes or jokes about some anodyne topic. But if economic vitality declines, people withdraw into their cultural and political tribes. Differences flare. Animosity rises. Persons of unpopular or unusual views, come to feel particularly unwelcome.

Originally Posted by sheena12

... Whoever is a "MAGA" type, I'd prefer not to live near. ...

Doctrinaire political adherences can be privately harbored by people who are nevertheless polite and cheerily open. But most memorable to us, are interactions with those who aren’t so polite. With that disclaimer, in my experience, it’s colorful representatives of the “MAGA types”, who themselves tell me to my face, that I’m “not worthy to be [their] neighbor”. The gist of the remarks, omitting the more vitriolic ones, is that “elitists like you, are selling our country out. You just don’t get it, and never will!”

My solution was to leave.

[Jay_F]

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

My solution was to leave.

Mind if I ask where you found greener pastures? Thanks.

[SlideRules99]

Originally Posted by sheena12

I'll answer this one. I don't know what percentage of Republicans in OH is "MAGA" types. Whoever is a "MAGA" type, I'd prefer not to live near. And yes, if they are OK - or enthusiastic about any of the vile and incendiary remarks about Mexicans, the disabled, Muslims, and many others, then no. They are not worthy of being my neighbor. In OH. In NY. In any state.

I also do not want to live in an area filled with Klan members, neo-Nazis, Proud Boys, or other hate groups.

Alright. So basically racists and hate group members/sympathizers. Of course, what rational human being wants to live amongst neo-Nazis and similar haters? Neither of us, I’m sure.

Is that how you view the members of your community who voted differently than you? Most of them? Some of them? I still don’t have a sense for this.

Your county (Trumbull) voted decisively for a Black presidential candidate - twice - by a staggering 22% margin. That was less than 10 years ago.

https://www.politico.com/2012-electi...resident/ohio/

That would not be voting behavior I’d expect in a community dominated by racists and hate group members. And let’s be honest, these are the same voters, only older. It’s not like Trumbull County’s population turns over much.

Again, if Dems want to change the outcome, put forth strong candidates at the local, state, and national level who advocate policies and positions that resonate with voters, including the working class citizens in counties like Trumbull and Mahoning.

Otherwise, that void gets filled.

Respectfully…

[ohio_peasant]

Originally Posted by Jay_F

Mind if I ask where you found greener pastures? Thanks.

Los Angeles. At least for now. For eventual retirement, perhaps elsewhere. But either along the coasts, or overseas.

Originally Posted by SlideRules99

... put forth strong candidates at the local, state, and national level who advocate policies and positions that resonate with voters, including the working class citizens in counties like Trumbull and Mahoning. ...

It is unlikely that most of those voters were doctrinally in one or another direction. Instead, as you note, the crux is "positions that resonate with [working class] voters". What are these positions, and are they sufficiently shared with one's fellow voters?

I relocated in part because I realized that even if my neighbors and I can form bonds of cordiality and good cheer, we just don't have much overlap in positions that resonate with us. It's more a question of culture than of politics. "Culture" means the main lifestyle issues (religion or not, having kids or not) and the passel of world-view issues about what it means to live life, what animates one, what's special and what's generic.

[EarthBound?]

Originally Posted by 216facts

Totally agree. Perhaps Tim Ryan will demonstrate the path forward for other democrats.

I'm definitely voting Republican across the board to help keep ohio a RED STATE. I like my guns, deer meat, my freedom and my gas burning 4WD truck.
Tim Ryan is an idiot who want everyone to turn into a snowflake EV hugger.

[SlideRules99]

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

Los Angeles. At least for now. For eventual retirement, perhaps elsewhere. But either along the coasts, or overseas.



It is unlikely that most of those voters were doctrinally in one or another direction. Instead, as you note, the crux is "positions that resonate with [working class] voters". What are these positions, and are they sufficiently shared with one's fellow voters?

I relocated in part because I realized that even if my neighbors and I can form bonds of cordiality and good cheer, we just don't have much overlap in positions that resonate with us. It's more a question of culture than of politics. "Culture" means the main lifestyle issues (religion or not, having kids or not) and the passel of world-view issues about what it means to live life, what animates one, what's special and what's generic.

Congrats on finding a landing zone on the coast that is a match for you.

I lived in Multnomah County (Portland, OR) and it was too lopsided for me. Culturally, a good fit, but way out of balance politically - to the extent that poor decisions were made and quality of life deteriorated noticeably during my time there.

I find CLE to be a good cultural fit. Certainly left-leaning, but with more counterbalance (locally, regionally, and state-wide) which keeps things in check.

I happen to like a variety of people and viewpoints. Echo chambers, to me, do nothing except reinforce one’s own personal biases. That would put me in a permanent rut.

Tribalism seems to be the “thing” now. Guess I’m the exception. It’s not for me.

[austiNati]

Originally Posted by EarthBound?

I'm definitely voting Republican across the board to help keep ohio a RED STATE. I like my guns, deer meat, my freedom and my gas burning 4WD truck.
Tim Ryan is an idiot who want everyone to turn into a snowflake EV hugger.

Ewwww. Found the person who's voting against folks rights. If the integrity of this nation comes down to your pickup truck and what food you like, I can't wait for the full shift left.
Ohio is being pulled in two directions alright. Between those who want to build a sustainable nation for the future, and those who want to take it back to a time that's been mythologized and never really existed (the so called great mid-20th century).