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don't know why they don't do that but If I were a democrat politician, I would even advocate for lower income tax or no tax at all at the federal level, if that's even possible. heck, I would even propose that the only federal agencies are defense and state. and no transfer of funds from richer state to poorer states. and since blue states are richer, I believe they would fare better than the red states if the states are responsible for their own except defense and foreign affairs
Exactly. CA should do something about the ridiclous amount of Federal Income tax we're paying. Federal Govt shouldn't be funding states. That should be all handled by the $$$ collected by the States themselves.
Cut all Federal Funded State program. Reduce the Federal Income tax to just 1%.
Let the states handle everything else like Education, HealthCare, Social Programs. etc.
CA can fund itself. The poor red states will soon realize that Socialism was a good thing for them.
Exactly. CA should do something about the ridiclous amount of Federal Income tax we're paying. Federal Govt shouldn't be funding states. That should be all handled by the $$$ collected by the States themselves.
Cut all Federal Funded State program. Reduce the Federal Income tax to just 1%.
Let the states handle everything else like Education, HealthCare, Social Programs. etc.
CA can fund itself. The poor red states will soon realize that Socialism was a good thing for them.
This is a complete leftist myth.
The supposed California deficit between outbound and inbound tax revenue is barely 1% of the total Federal aid given back to the states. Totally insignificant.
The supposed California deficit between outbound and inbound tax revenue is barely 1% of the total Federal aid given back to the states. Totally insignificant.
don't know about that statistic but if USA were just like the EU, what states would be just like Germany, UK, Netherlands and what states would be Greece, Spain, Italy not only in terms of deficit but over all economic well being?
The blue states should just do what the red states are doing. Drop income tax and beg the Feds for $$$ to make up the difference. Then go on National TV to complain about big Govt and socialism. To make it look like they're against it. While happily accepting handouts paid for by CA tax payers. (CA is #1 in $$$ collected by the Feds).
It is not as simple as your liberal friends would have you believe. A big part of Government funding is Social Security Benefits both for retired and those that have medical needs. For many years the thought was that for every Dollar sent out to the feds only $0.76 cents comes back to the state. The truth is more like $0.99 comes back for every $1.00 sent to the feds. We are even.
Another thing to consider before blame is sent out. The Federal Government sends out the same amount of money per person to each state. Here in California we get the most because we have the most people. The problem arises when how that money is spent. For example, here in California we are taxed the most and the State takes that tax money and sticks it alongside the federal money. That gives us a percentage of cash spent on each person. A percentage of the money from the State and a percentage from the feds. because of state taxes it can be said that the Fed only supports Californians at a 72% rate while in Alaska the Feds support the people at a 100% rate. What happens is that the war cry goes out that the Fed gives back to California less than they spend while in Alaska the Fed has to support 100% of the people.
What is really happening though. The people in Red states are using the money more wisely. They do not tax or tax at a low amount the people of their state. They decide to live on just what the Feds give them. They live well within their means. California on the other hand gets the same per capita and not only spends all of that but spends what ever else they can tax the people.
To a liberal it looks good on paper but to someone that understands living within your means the real winner is the people of the Red state.
The supposed California deficit between outbound and inbound tax revenue is barely 1% of the total Federal aid given back to the states. Totally insignificant.
Correct. All they have to do is cherry pick their stats and they will believe fully that high taxes lead to prosperity.... completely ignoring that people move into prosperous areas and vote for a share of the wealth.
It also depends on what you are measuring. California has benefited GREATLY from defense spending. It also has benefited from natural resources (ag, mining and oil) and climate (entertainment industry and tourism). Yet many in the state think their liberal policies somehow led to this prosperity. Or that the tech industry was created out of thin air by progressives.
don't know about that statistic but if USA were just like the EU, what states would be just like Germany, UK, Netherlands and what states would be Greece, Spain, Italy not only in terms of deficit but over all economic well being?
Not comparable because the EU is in a (somewhat) monetary union but not a fiscal union. Even if so, the relative prosperity of EU members has no correlation whatsoever to their political leaning. It's also not a hard rule in the US. Compare Oregon to Texas for example.
We left for some of the reasons in the article, and for many other reasons. No desire to return but not due to the things people are saying prevent a desire to return. We just do not want to move back into the bee hive, plus we really love where we are. However we still love California too, just have no desire to ever live there again. Some people seem to think you either love California and long to return or hate it. That is not true. We, and at least 20 friends who left as well, still love California, but none of us have any desire to return.
We left for (in approximate order of importance):
1. Family support (i.e. to be near extended family).
2. Better atmosphere for raising children (Get away from the overwhelming "me me me" and "Money money money" atmosphere and the sex oriented atmosphere in the schools. Sure it exists here too but it is not overwhelmingly the prevailing atmosphere. In fact, it is barely present in many locations.) If you do not understand this or do not believe it, it is probably because you are caught up in it and are part of it. We were for a time. You really do not realize it. You just jump in and go.
3. Better physical atmosphere for the kids. In CA, our kids played with other kids in a huge empty parking lot, or we drove them to a park or drove them to the beach. We pretty much had to be with them or have eyes on them at all times. We wanted more freedom an better options for them and for us. Here, our front yard is a river, our side and back yard are forests. We live on an island with virtually no crime. The only rule we had for the kids: Do not leave the island except in a boat and always wear a life jacket on the water. We should have added "Clean your fish before you bring them home." In California the rule was never leave the back yard unless we are with you.
4. Schools. In California at least southern California your choices are live in conforming soulless suburbia that will suck out your soul for good public schools (and at a cost that forces you into a small house with a tiny yard), or live in a cool place with some soul to it, but pay for private school. We had decided to move to a better area, but could not find anyplace we liked much with decent public schools that was not a conforming, redundant nightmare to us and we would have had to seriously downgrade our house even if we sold our souls and moved to Irvine or its progeny.
5. School atmosphere. Even in Santa Ana, the schools were a fashion competition. I once mistook the female population of our jr. high for hookers who must be dropping off their kids. OUr kids were ridiculed because they had fake uggs. The "better" schools were worse. Competitiveness was insane. Our kids came home from school in tears regularly at those schools. Drug and sex pressure was crazy too. When we visited our current high school in a very wealthy area, every kid was wearing jeans and a t-shirt or polo shirt. No fashion show, The billionaire's kids wore the same clothing and sat at lunch with the kids of the township water department workers. Sure there are kids doing drugs and pushing everyone to have sex, but they are fringe, not the norm.
6. Real estate. This factors in because to move to better schools we would have had to more to an atmosphere we hated, plus a smaller house, shared bedrooms (we have 5 kids), tiny yard if any. Instead we rolled our CA house sale money into a 6 br over 5000 sf historic home on an acre of wooded land, on a large island in a major river, in the safest community in Michigan.
7. Get out of the bee hive. It is not just the traffic. Everything is busy busy busy rush rush rush and then wait wait wait. It was driving us crazy and it made a lot of people around us self absorbed and sometimes nasty. People would nearly run you over in a parking lot or hit you with their shopping cart and not apologize or maybe even glare at you for being in their way. While the same people might be really nice and friendly if you met them at church or at your kids school, when they fell into rush rush rush mode, they were wrapped up in being late to Suzie's ballet lesson or whatever and not really aware of what or who was around them.
8. Greener and cleaner place. So Cal. is very grey. Even in the winter when things "green up" it is greyish green. The "rivers" are beds of sand most of the time. Lakes are grey brown buddles (reservoirs) or fake large ponds with water dyed blue or green. We missed the lush vibrant greens and loads of trees of wetter places. We missed lakes and rivers and streams and ponds with water in them. The ocean is nice, but not the same as having rivers lakes ponds everywhere, kayaks in your front yard, etc. Plus unless you are uber rich, the ocean is a far away lace (in time not miles) that you visit occasionally, usually when you can afford to dedicate a full day.
9. Travel/traffic. I am an impatient person. Driving in OC was hell, the surface streets are actually worse than the freeways. Driving was more about stopping than driving. Luckily I was a mile from work so I could ride my bike walk or if I had to go to LA take the train. Still it drove me nuts at times. I got stuck in two hours of stop and go in LA at 3 a.m. one morning. Arrrgh!
10. Weather (for my wife). She hated the "boring" weather. No storms, no rain, no puffy clouds and very little change. She struggled with the year round dryness and really suffered during Santa Ana winds (asthma and allergies). Me, I thought the weather was perfect. Although I do enjoy the big thunderstorms and sometimes the snow/cold. I miss the sunshine.
11. Natural disasters. drought, earthquakes, fires, floods, landslides, 70 MPH Santa Ana gusts, it seemed like the State was trying to kill us once a year. Then we added unnatural disasters, riots, pollution issues/contamination, crime waves (cyclical). Oh and I guess I will throw in the insane and wildly corrupt governments at all levels as an unnatural disaster. Those people in Sacramento were just bonkers.
However, there were a lot of things we missed terribly. Surprisingly one was not the beach. After we moved away from the beach, but still in Orange County (Costa Mesa, then Orange then Santa Ana), we seemed to visit it less and less frequently every year. It was just such a pia with the crowds, parking, sand, traffic, sunburns. . . Besides, surprisingly, there are much prettier beaches in Michigan, you are just limited to about four or five months when the water is warm enough to swim (who actually swims at the beach anyway?). However we were surprised to discover we did not really miss the beach (the huge river in our front yard may have helped with that).
What we found we missed most:
1. Awesome variety of really cool places within a day (Kings Canyon/Sequoia; Yosemite; Zion Canyon; Vegas; Joshua Tree; San Diego, Monterey and San Francisco, Sierra Mountains, Mammoth. . .). And even some really neat local places to get out and hike or whatever - Silverado Canyon and Red Rock canyon/Whiting ranch, plus the bridge to Nowhere in Asuza. There are cool places around here, but not as much variety and not as dramatically cool.
2. Quality Restaurants. They exist here, but they are few and far between. Want good Mexican - drive 27 miles up to Detroit's "Mexican Village" No walking to the corner to eat. Good Chinese? 60 mile drive. At least you do not have to wit for an hour or two when you get there (except at the one cheesecake factory location which is also an hour away and almost always has a 2 hour wait).
3. Church. We never realized how unusual and awesome our church was. Most here seem more uptight and almost secretive about their faith and beliefs.
4. Sun and bike riding in the winters. The cold really is not a problem and the snow is actually cool, but the endless months where you never see the sun can be difficult. Plus you cannot really ride a bike in the winter, and XC skiiing requires more snow than we usually get. It gets dreary at times. That is when we go visit California or Colorado or Texas. Most people here actually go to Florida several times during the winter.
5. My income. It took a few years and a recession, but my income eventually dropped to half. Yes COL is much lower here, but not that much lower. My career took a big hit and never really recovered. However, my work now is much more laid back and pleasant.
We could afford to go back, but would not want to. Having lived in open wet, green - I just do not want to climb back into the bee hive. Been there done that. If we ever move, it will be to somewhere completely differnt than either place. But it will more than likely be wherever the largest number of our kids end up.
Coldjensens, your post was spot on with why you moved and like where you live better (don't agree with most of what you miss, though, but we're all individuals). I'm loving having weather, a really nice place to live, a higher income than we had in CA, fewer people, and a really great natural environment. It takes us literally ten minutes to get into the mountains and is just gorgeous.
I'll never leave California. The weather is perfect, the dining/entertainment options unlimited, the beaches are gorgeous. Most people who leave couldn't cut it in California. It's expensive and if you are not successful in your career, you'll have problems. These people leave and try to tell themselves and others how much better they like living in cold, wet, snow or some other form of misery.
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