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I find this conversation about beards weird. My daughter has lived in Portland and now outside of Portland. Beards are common among the younger generation, including doctors and other professionals from what I've seen.
It is. A bunch of the teens have them at my son's high school. He has one too as he is too lazy to shave every day. It's weird because I grew up with clean-cut boys at my high school, but it is totally normal for millennials and Gen Z to have beards.
I like the Oregon ones also; Mystic Wines is my favorite most of the time, but I really appreciate a good pinot from the Loire Valley when I can get it out here, which is pretty much never unless I drive to Portland. My advice about the International Pinot Noir celebration is to get the one-day pass for Sunday instead of the whole thing. It's not just PNW vintners; they come from all over.
Mystic Wines, ok I checked them out and plan to try a bottle soon. Thanks for the tip! I’ve been enjoying Eryie Pinot Noir and Ken Wright since the 90’s. About ten years ago, I tried a glass of Argyle Pinot in an airport and liked it very much. That got added to the rotation. All great vineyards.
That Pinot Noir celebration sounds just perfect. I’ll have to try for next year.
No I don't think they would think it is strange, but it is just the difference between cities and rural areas. I think you need to stick close to cities because it isn't cult-like to wear flannel and have a beard. We have lots of hunters and fishers in Oregon and both flannel and beards keep you warm.
You think too little of the people that live in small towns because they like a different lifestyle than you. People that live in small towns don't need a variety of restaurants. They like going to the same places, and knowing the same people. It's kind of the point of small towns: a sense of community. Not everyone wants to go out to eat. If you go and hunt your own deer, catch your own salmon, and go crabbing, you don't really need to eat out. If you liked living in LA and Phoenix, then small towns are not the right choice for you.
And no, no one gouges you because you are a newbie from California. They gouge you because we have a contractor shortage. Its supply and demand. The contractors that made it through the bust burned through most of their savings so having a chance to refill their savings isn't a bad thing.
If you walk into a community thinking these negative things about people, you won't fit in.
It seems strange to live in a place where so many look and think alike. I guess it’s from living near large cities since the 90’s. I’m used to different viewpoints, races, religions. All this sameness here is not what we wanted. I don’t think it’s being mean or unreasonable to expect to have a few things in common with one’s neighbors. I was put off from the first time I saw all the trash dumpers around here and it’s been downhill from there.
Now here’s a point I want to make. I said earlier that I agreed with Greenman, his observations about a lot of what’s wrong with small town living, I have also seen and agree with. You and Larry jumped in to defend your area. No problem with that, you both grew up here. But not giving a realistic assessment of an area and only talking up the good points is not doing anyone a favor if they have never been to the area. People need to know about the good and bad in an area to make an informed decision on living there or not.
We’re moving this summer (hopefully) and need a place close to the city while still having a few acres for the horses. I know there are better areas to live in with better educated and less surly people and just need to find them. Oregon is on the radar, along with a couple other areas. In our old neighborhood, there were engineers that spouse liked to walk with. Here, half the neighbors look like stoners, due to this being an unincorporated area. I like Oregon, when we spent the night there on the move to Washington, I was walking the dogs and took a fall. Right away, two different people offered to help me up. I told spouse if it had been Phoenix, I’d have been run over.
I disagree with you on the contractor thing. I’m sure it’s true in your area, but I had one quote to set 12 fence posts for 3k. I supplied all the material. Seriously? No, it’s plain gouging.
Pretty sure Silverfall didn't grow up here, so she does bring an outside perspective in.
I grew up in Oregon, and although my experience with McMinnville is just that of an occasional visitor, I think Larry's assessment is more realistic than Greenman's.
Not all small towns here are the same. The better ones are probably Silverton, Cannon Beach, Jacksonville...sure others can add to that. But you won't find diversity in any of them.
Sounds like you haven't really liked anywhere you've lived; might be time to figure out why. Being miserable because other people have beards doesn't sound like the greatest way to live.
Quote:
All this sameness here is not what we wanted. I don’t think it’s being mean or unreasonable to expect to have a few things in common with one’s neighbors.
Where does the sense of entitlement come from? I can see being disappointed in not being to find community, and I can certainly understand demographics having an effect on overall happiness(ask me about Nov 9, 2016, when the lights literally went out at my other home in bum**** and I knew I couldn't do another winter there). I just don't get why it seems to make you angry that the people aren't what you want them to be.
Honestly, sometimes you sound like one of those whiter-than-white types who demand "diversity" as a lifestyle amenity, kind of like those who went to Standing Rock and treated it like Coachella.
I agree with Silverfall about the contractor thing. They go really high on small jobs; if they accepted them at the price you wanted to pay, they're probably be losing money. It's hard to find people to do things all over the Northwest.
Last edited by Metlakatla; 12-18-2018 at 06:49 PM..
Pretty sure Silverfall didn't grow up here, so she does bring an outside perspective in.
I grew up in Oregon, and although my experience with McMinnville is just that of an occasional visitor, I think Larry's assessment is more realistic than Greenman's.
Not all small towns here are the same. The better ones are probably Silverton, Cannon Beach, Jacksonville...sure others can add to that. But you won't find diversity in any of them.
Sounds like you haven't really liked anywhere you've lived; might be time to figure out why. Being miserable because other people have beards doesn't sound like the greatest way to live.
Where does the sense of entitlement come from? I can see being disappointed in not being to find community, and I can certainly understand demographics having an effect on overall happiness(ask me about Nov 9, 2016, when the lights literally went out at my other home in bum**** and I knew I couldn't do another winter there). I just don't get why it seems to make you angry that the people aren't what you want them to be.
Honestly, sometimes you sound like one of those whiter-than-white types who demand "diversity" as a lifestyle amenity, kind of like those who went to Standing Rock and treated it like Coachella.
I agree with Silverfall about the contractor thing. They go really high on small jobs; if they accepted them at the price you wanted to pay, they're probably be losing money. It's hard to find people to do things all over the Northwest.
I’m not miserable because of the beards. It just serves as a reminder that we’re out of place here. I’m also not angry that the people aren’t who I expected, disappointed maybe, but from all the positive things said about the PNW, I didn’t expect to find so many trash dumping stoners. Of course areas vary, and we’re probably in a worse than usual place. I expected to have neighbors who wanted to buy a nice place and live in the country. I don’t relate at all to some of the locals. I expected more civilized behavior than a lot of things I’ve seen. If these people want to smoke pot, meth, dump trash in their yards, whatever, they are free to do it. I just don’t want to live around it.
I was pretty happy in Scottsdale, had a good job, good friends, lived in an affluent area. The heat and my allergies drove me away after 17 years. I won’t be back, no more 115 degree summers. Since moving here, my allergies have drastically improved. I also liked LA, but the overcrowded area got to be too much. Regardless of where I’ve lived, I’ve always managed to make friends, get jobs, turn a fixer house into a nice one.
My spouse has hated it here from day one. I chose this place and he’s had more than one yelling fit about it. It puts the stress on, so I’m anxious to complete the updates on this place, sell and try again. He’s taking time off work to help and we’re getting a lot done. I’ve met some nice people here, although many have a surly attitude. One guy who was helping me in Home Depot told an offensive dirty joke, is that how they treat women customers? Still others in customer service have had such nasty and unhelpful attitudes it’s prompted me to bring attention to it. That’s never happened anywhere I’ve lived but here.
I don’t know anything about Standing Rock, but I’ve always been comfortable having friends who aren’t white. Not sure what that’s about. As far as the contractors, it makes sense that there is a shortage of them, it does explain the ridiculous prices. Maybe those ex timber guys should get busy on their license.
Maybe those ex timber guys should get busy on their license.
I think this is probably part of your problem. People know when you're looking down your nose at them. Could also be a part of the problem you're having with contractors as well; they probably pick up on you and your husband's disdain for all those beards and flannel and quote accordingly. They're independent business people, not servants, by the way.
Junky neighborhoods are that way everywhere. I live in a PNW town that's smaller than yours, and I see and experience very little of what you're describing. But in certain neighborhoods here, it definitely exists.
FYI, most of the former timber workers have moved on or retired, but the vibe remains in some of these towns. Not sure if the one you're in is among them. From the way you say your husband is yelling at you over this, geography is probably among the least of your problems.
My comment about Standard Rock is that there's a certain type of white progressive that seems to view their vision of diversity as lifestyle amenity that they're somehow entitled to. The white people who showed up at Standing Rock expecting it to be a festival are a pretty good example of that mindset. This kind of explains it:
I can understand valuing diversity, but as I said before, you come across as feeling somehow entitled to it.
I hope you find happiness somewhere. Maybe somewhere like Redlands, CA? SIL lived there for years, and I really liked it when we visited. Probably has it's junky side like everywhere. My sister has a home in Lake Oswego and likes it but diversity's in short supply there.
Last edited by Metlakatla; 12-18-2018 at 10:20 PM..
It seems strange to live in a place where so many look and think alike. I guess it’s from living near large cities since the 90’s. I’m used to different viewpoints, races, religions. All this sameness here is not what we wanted. I don’t think it’s being mean or unreasonable to expect to have a few things in common with one’s neighbors. I was put off from the first time I saw all the trash dumpers around here and it’s been downhill from there.
Now here’s a point I want to make. I said earlier that I agreed with Greenman, his observations about a lot of what’s wrong with small town living, I have also seen and agree with. You and Larry jumped in to defend your area. No problem with that, you both grew up here. But not giving a realistic assessment of an area and only talking up the good points is not doing anyone a favor if they have never been to the area. People need to know about the good and bad in an area to make an informed decision on living there or not.
We’re moving this summer (hopefully) and need a place close to the city while still having a few acres for the horses. I know there are better areas to live in with better educated and less surly people and just need to find them. Oregon is on the radar, along with a couple other areas. In our old neighborhood, there were engineers that spouse liked to walk with. Here, half the neighbors look like stoners, due to this being an unincorporated area. I like Oregon, when we spent the night there on the move to Washington, I was walking the dogs and took a fall. Right away, two different people offered to help me up. I told spouse if it had been Phoenix, I’d have been run over.
I disagree with you on the contractor thing. I’m sure it’s true in your area, but I had one quote to set 12 fence posts for 3k. I supplied all the material. Seriously? No, it’s plain gouging.
Ahah. The light begins to dawn. It may be a question of cultural expectations. In many parts of the country, people form friendships with their neighbors. People in Oregon don't. I fit right into my neighborhood. I talk to my neighbors once every year or two. That's plenty. I don't need the neighbors all up in my business. I make friends through common interests, and am considered a really cordial guy by the people I associate with. If I lived next door to you, I'd give you a call if your horses were out, but that would be the limit of neighboring.
If you settled in a bad neighborhood, you have my sympathy. Metlakatla and I have a friend who lives next door to a petty criminal who runs an unlicensed junk yard to support his drug habit. The neighbor inherited the property from his parents, and could never have afforded to buy it on his own. He's a thief and a bum, who contaminates the whole area by burning plastics and rubber instead of paying disposal fees. Our friend has been forced to install a top of the line video security system to discourage prowlers and casual theft. It happens. People who stumble across very reasonably priced rural property are advised to wonder why it's so cheap.
I really hate autocorrect. Standing Rock, not Standard Rock.
Yeah, the wrong person can ruin a neighborhood, especially if they somehow manage to weasel their way into owning the property like that guy next to the mutual friend Larry and I have. Rural Oregon has some sketchy people. There was white trash living next to my father's house for awhile -- backyard breeding of pit bulls, poaching, god knows what else, but they were only renting so they moved on after they burned the place down cooking meth.
There's some talk on one of my local FB community pages about not being able to find housekeeping and handyman services at "reasonable" prices, but in places like this where the working class has largely been priced out by incoming Californians, the working people who are left can't afford to work for cheap rates.
Last edited by Metlakatla; 12-18-2018 at 11:31 PM..
Ahah. The light begins to dawn. It may be a question of cultural expectations. In many parts of the country, people form friendships with their neighbors. People in Oregon don't. I fit right into my neighborhood. I talk to my neighbors once every year or two. That's plenty. I don't need the neighbors all up in my business. I make friends through common interests, and am considered a really cordial guy by the people I associate with. If I lived next door to you, I'd give you a call if your horses were out, but that would be the limit of neighboring.
If you settled in a bad neighborhood, you have my sympathy. Metlakatla and I have a friend who lives next door to a petty criminal who runs an unlicensed junk yard to support his drug habit. The neighbor inherited the property from his parents, and could never have afforded to buy it on his own. He's a thief and a bum, who contaminates the whole area by burning plastics and rubber instead of paying disposal fees. Our friend has been forced to install a top of the line video security system to discourage prowlers and casual theft. It happens. People who stumble across very reasonably priced rural property are advised to wonder why it's so cheap.
Your idea of neighboring sounds good. Actually, it’s my spouse who likes to get to know the neighbors. I prefer to make friends at work. You would be a great neighbor to have, unfortunately, my neighbors dump mattress and junk in their front yards, live in crappy looking, unkept houses and enjoy the weed. I often smell it when feeding the horses. And that’s fine, they can live however they choose, but I would prefer to live near people who have a better work ethic and values. And with these huge fir trees you have up here, everything was hidden. I never saw it until we’d been here awhile. Plus, I realized this neighborhood is unincorporated. That dosen’t help.
Your friend has my sympathy. This guy sounds as though he’d fit in around here just fine. Glad to hear your friend bought a good security system. I thought about it, but decided to put it off until after the move. This house is beautiful, it’s what made me fall in love with it. I didn’t know enough about the area and how things are up here to do some looking around first. Oregon is not too different from Washington, so if we choose it, I plan to take a hard look at the neighborhood.
Here is an interesting New York Times article about New York urbanites moving out to rural towns that is reminiscent of some of what is happening in parts of rural Oregon with the Californians and young Portland hipster types moving out to rural Oregon.
The move freed up head space, Mr. Dilling said. Now he has more time to spend with his family, and without the external stimulus provided by the city, he has done more soul-searching and become more spiritual. There is time, he said, for things other than work, like meditation.
Upstairs from Lite Brite Neon, he and his wife opened Cygnets Way, a studio that offers community yoga and classes in mindfulness practices, like sound healing. Ms. deVries also teaches bead-making and love-letter writing there.
“There’s truly an expat community up here,” said Ms. Brenn-White, the real estate agent.
Bead making and love letter writing? An "expat community" like they are living in Guatemala? The comment thread is brutal.
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