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However, kids do need to be taught right from wrong and that sometimes requires that they suffer the consequences of their actions.
I know that this has nothing to do with kids. My husband did not want to talk to his mother about overstepping boundaries. He said, "I don't want anybody's feelings to be hurt." I responded, "But feelings will be hurt because boundaries were crossed." This was a big discovery for me and made me realize that I can't avoid handing out consequences to my daughter if I want her to know right from wrong.
Everyone has brought up great examples. I'd like to add that punishing a child for something a child is incapable of doing properly is demeaning. For example:
My husband's parents were very strict about grades, and they grounded their children to the kitchen table for an entire grading period if they got a bad grade on their report card. (way too strict IMO, but that's not the point I'm trying to make.) His sister was incapable of getting good grades. Once his parents realized this (epilepsy diagnosis), she was no longer grounded for bad grades. Since she was incapable of getting good grades due to brain damage caused by seizures, it would have been demeaning to continue punishing her the same as her brothers and sisters.
Sadly, I know many parents that have straight rules and punishments that apply to all children in their families. They think they are being fair by punishing all children equally. However, ability should be taken into consideration. I also feel that it's important to adjust parenting methods according to each child because each child responds differenty to various forms of punishment and rewards. The end result is what matters.
Speaking of fairness in raising multiple children, I'm going to go a little off topic. I've even known parents who wouldn't allow one child to attend a private school on scholarship because they couldn't afford to send their other children to private school. That form of fairness makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.
By sheer definition (and tradition) punishment is done to inflict harm or pain on someone or to make them suffer, while discipline is done to correct unwanted behavior and to teach a desired behavior.
So if punishment is meted out in a household as meets the definition, then most likely it is demeaning. However, if it's presented as discipline but called punishment then it's less likely to be demeaning.
Anything done to a person that reduces them in esteem, dignity, status or value is something that demeans them.
So a child who colors all over a wall is being disciplined when they are made to clean it up themselves. They are being punished and demeaned if they are made to show and tell daddy when he comes home what they did.
A child who chooses not to do school work and therefore gets a bad grade is being disciplined if they have cannot participate in after school activities until they resume doing their school work. A child is being punished and demeaned if they made to clean toilets with a toothbrush.
A child who refuses to follow a teachers directions are disciplined when they stay in at recess to learn what they missed out on when they refused to do what they were supposed to do earlier. A child who is made to stand against the wall with their arms out to their sides are being punished and demeaned.
So, each situation can be looked at and determined if a child is truly being punished or if they are being disciplined instead in order help determine if what is occurring is demeaning or not.
By sheer definition (and tradition) punishment is done to inflict harm or pain on someone or to make them suffer, while discipline is done to correct unwanted behavior and to teach a desired behavior.
So if punishment is meted out in a household as meets the definition, then most likely it is demeaning. However, if it's presented as discipline but called punishment then it's less likely to be demeaning.
Anything done to a person that reduces them in esteem, dignity, status or value is something that demeans them.
So a child who colors all over a wall is being disciplined when they are made to clean it up themselves. They are being punished and demeaned if they are made to show and tell daddy when he comes home what they did.
A child who chooses not to do school work and therefore gets a bad grade is being disciplined if they have cannot participate in after school activities until they resume doing their school work. A child is being punished and demeaned if they made to clean toilets with a toothbrush.
A child who refuses to follow a teachers directions are disciplined when they stay in at recess to learn what they missed out on when they refused to do what they were supposed to do earlier. A child who is made to stand against the wall with their arms out to their sides are being punished and demeaned.
So, each situation can be looked at and determined if a child is truly being punished or if they are being disciplined instead in order help determine if what is occurring is demeaning or not.
no-- but it keeps the jail population low.
but we didnt like the way our grandfathers did stuff so we did our own version, we have failed.
highest prison population on earth.
no-- but it keeps the jail population low.
but we didnt like the way our grandfathers did stuff so we did our own version, we have failed.
highest prison population on earth.
I think one issue is that some parents are giving children everything they want, and nothing they need. I don't think it has to do with not demeaning children.
I think one issue is that some parents are giving children everything they want, and nothing they need. I don't think it has to do with not demeaning children.
What's easier...giving in or following through w/ a consequence?
And once you start having multiple children each with their own personalities and reasonings behind things, it starts to get even trickier.
We do not live in a society that values consequences but rather instant gratification & self-need.
What's easier...giving in or following through w/ a consequence?
And once you start having multiple children each with their own personalities and reasonings behind things, it starts to get even trickier.
We do not live in a society that values consequences but rather instant gratification & self-need.
I think what some may not realize is that the hard work you put in now will pay off in the long run for both parent and child. This includes taking time out to train the child, showing them how to do things so they can do it as well. For example, I don't throw my daughters diapers for her. We hand it over and say, "Now, throw it away." She has her own special trashcan but she has used the one under the sink and we never showed her how to do this.
There is a saying in some parenting circles: If you give out of love, then it is positive. If you give out of guilt or because the child has worn you down, then it is negative. It is spoiling and you need to change something.
Of course, the occasional night that I am particularly tired and don't want to do the night routine, but still do, doesn't count for spoiling. If I find that I am no longer enjoying the night routine, I will start making small changes.
By sheer definition (and tradition) punishment is done to inflict harm or pain on someone or to make them suffer, while discipline is done to correct unwanted behavior and to teach a desired behavior.
So if punishment is meted out in a household as meets the definition, then most likely it is demeaning. However, if it's presented as discipline but called punishment then it's less likely to be demeaning.
Anything done to a person that reduces them in esteem, dignity, status or value is something that demeans them.
So a child who colors all over a wall is being disciplined when they are made to clean it up themselves. They are being punished and demeaned if they are made to show and tell daddy when he comes home what they did.
A child who chooses not to do school work and therefore gets a bad grade is being disciplined if they have cannot participate in after school activities until they resume doing their school work. A child is being punished and demeaned if they made to clean toilets with a toothbrush.
A child who refuses to follow a teachers directions are disciplined when they stay in at recess to learn what they missed out on when they refused to do what they were supposed to do earlier. A child who is made to stand against the wall with their arms out to their sides are being punished and demeaned.
So, each situation can be looked at and determined if a child is truly being punished or if they are being disciplined instead in order help determine if what is occurring is demeaning or not.
Great examples.
One does not always equal the other. It really comes down to logical punishments that are meted out as consequences for an action. It is easy to cross the line into something demeaning and a parent needs to be careful not to head in that direction. If the punishment is demeaning it fails to teach consequence and instead breeds resentment and rebellion.
I had an interesting philosophical discussion with my wife and we discovered that we saw punishment differently.
One key difference was that she said that she felt that punishment was demeaning.
Now to me punishment actually should not be demeaning. Not to say that punishment is pleasant by any means. It hurts (if its physical punishment) or its restrictive if say a child is grounded or it hurts financially as in a speeding fine. But I do not see it as demeaning. I do not recall ever feeling demeaned when I was punishes either as a child or when I for example ger a speeding fine.
What do you think?
What does she think about shame? Does she think that children should be made to feel ashamed when they have intentionally done something wrong? For example, when they break something intentionally or hurt another child or an animal on purpose?
I think that one of our problems these days is that children feel no shame for having committed shameful acts.
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